Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Why do people still guard healers in flashpoints?

Ausgelebt's Avatar


Ausgelebt
09.09.2013 , 05:55 AM | #11
Too many people not using aggro reduce. Hell I am playing a dps with one of the highest openers ingame (around 7k dps initial) and I don't steal aggro too often just aggro reduce after the first part of the rotation and then on cd and you're set. It is too easy. (Indeed you will steal aggro if the tank is total crap..)

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
09.09.2013 , 06:14 AM | #12
Actually aggro dump is not that effective for all classes. Guardian DPS can't really use theirs. And eg. slinger one if you already pulled won't help unless tank taunts. Using it preventively helps of course but not as much as I would expect.
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Joshased From Beyond / Dread Slayer Xartanol
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.09.2013 , 06:40 AM | #13
@fire-breath:
Guarding a Tank on TFB NiM can work for some groups. It depends a lot on your setups. For first phase, we normally guard the persons that take the most damage from lightning field and could be killed by heirad afterwards.
For the second phase and third phase, i think it's viable to guard a tank.

Guarding dps should because of aggro problems should normally not be important. As an assassin i can generate about 50k threat in the first 10 seconds (don't know about other tanking classes). Even when melee dps is then pulling more then 5,5k dps in the first 10 seconds (range dps would even need 6,5k dps) you still have 2 taunts to easily get back on top of the aggro table.

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
09.09.2013 , 06:51 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
Guarding dps should because of aggro problems should normally not be important. As an assassin i can generate about 50k threat in the first 10 seconds (don't know about other tanking classes). Even when melee dps is then pulling more then 5,5k dps in the first 10 seconds (range dps would even need 6,5k dps) you still have 2 taunts to easily get back on top of the aggro table.
With string of lucky crits I have seen 8-10k for 20-30 secs on my slinger. But it doesn't happen that often. I do think it's worth to guard combat sentinel at the start of the fight especially if you are starting with inspiration, adrenal, relic etc. I had once unlucky string on TWH NiM when my 4 first attacks on my shadow missed/got resisted and I had to burn the taunt and then lost it again after second taunt and it was a wipe. Happened to me only once in last couple of weeks. Still better to guard then be sorry later I always guard squishest person when aggro is non issue like Op IX or Dreadguards. So usually a sage (heal or DPS).
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Joshased From Beyond / Dread Slayer Xartanol
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

Godly_CzL's Avatar


Godly_CzL
09.09.2013 , 07:38 AM | #15
I would just like to point out that in lowbie flashpoints as a healer I always insist on getting guard from the tank. For 2 reasons.

1. The tank is usually not highly skilled and/or does not have all of their proper abilities necessary to control the pulls throughout the FP. Thus chaos ensues and as a healer I inevitably have to fend off adds for myself, lowering my ability to heal.

2. The DPS in the group are not generally high quality players. Most often they are f2p and have no idea who to target first (always going for the toughest opponents, instead of the weakest first) or just don't have a good grasp of their new toon.

Being a skilled healer, I generally am able to heal smoothly enough to DPS as well. When the tank is not controlling the FP and the DPS are both focusing the Champion in the group, all eyes turn to the healer. And the worst part is no one seems to notice or care. For those reasons I would always recommend guarding your healer from the beginning, and only switching guard if a DPS proves to be competent enough to steal aggro. It's a l2p issue no doubt, but guarding your healer can ease that pain while your frustration builds behind your mediocre group.

I would also argue that this is the proper form in 55 FP's especially if you don't know the other players you get matched with. But I would hope by 55 as a DPS you understand proper kill orders.

wetslampigduex's Avatar


wetslampigduex
09.09.2013 , 08:34 AM | #16
I find this hilarious, I've played all three tanks since launch. Just started 55 on my Sniper a few weeks ago. Now that i'm 2/3's 72's I laugh every single FP the tank gaurds the healer and I'm tanking the mobs the whole FP. Hell I kited Kephess SM in TFB in the first phase one week cause the tank was clueless.

Tanks put your guard on a DPS. The majority of tanks are terrible, esp. in GF. I use FP's and SM OPS to practice agro generation. Typically in these I wont use taunts or guard just to make myself better. Only twice in about 2 months of pugging on 2 tanks in FP's and SM Ops I've honestly had to use a guard cause the DPS knew how to play.

What I find mind boggling is the amount of tank's esp PT's the pull with the AoE taunt. Now like I said I've only tanked since launch so, I assumed other tanks knew how to play. Well they don't. Almost every PT I've seen will open with Explosive dart then aoe taunt and Jet Charge in, if I choose to drop and Orbital Strike, anything that's not dead turns to me.

So tank's here is a pro tip- Before blowing your AoE taunts leap/sprint in get 3-4 Aoe abilities that hit all the mobs then use your AoE taunt, please and thank you.(for a PT it'd be Jet Charge>Rocket Punch(gold/elite target)>Flame Sweep>Flame Sweep> Rail Shot> Flame Thrower(pref. procced)>Aoe Taunt) . My sniper is squishy and my agro drop doesn't always help

THoK-Zeus's Avatar


THoK-Zeus
09.09.2013 , 08:37 AM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by AAAAzrael View Post
With string of lucky crits I have seen 8-10k for 20-30 secs on my slinger. But it doesn't happen that often. I do think it's worth to guard combat sentinel at the start of the fight especially if you are starting with inspiration, adrenal, relic etc. I had once unlucky string on TWH NiM when my 4 first attacks on my shadow missed/got resisted and I had to burn the taunt and then lost it again after second taunt and it was a wipe. Happened to me only once in last couple of weeks. Still better to guard then be sorry later I always guard squishest person when aggro is non issue like Op IX or Dreadguards. So usually a sage (heal or DPS).
8-10k for 20-30 seconds on a Operation Boss?! Not a chance at all. Probably you get that number if you hit 5 targets with your orbital, but 100% not on a single target. With my sniper i parse about 3100 on dummy and i have a maximum of 4k-4,5k dps after 20-30 seconds.

DarthScruffy's Avatar


DarthScruffy
09.09.2013 , 08:58 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by wetslampigduex View Post

What I find mind boggling is the amount of tank's esp PT's the pull with the AoE taunt. Now like I said I've only tanked since launch so, I assumed other tanks knew how to play. Well they don't. Almost every PT I've seen will open with Explosive dart then aoe taunt and Jet Charge in, if I choose to drop and Orbital Strike, anything that's not dead turns to me.

So tank's here is a pro tip- Before blowing your AoE taunts leap/sprint in get 3-4 Aoe abilities that hit all the mobs then use your AoE taunt, please and thank you.(for a PT it'd be Jet Charge>Rocket Punch(gold/elite target)>Flame Sweep>Flame Sweep> Rail Shot> Flame Thrower(pref. procced)>Aoe Taunt) . My sniper is squishy and my agro drop doesn't always help
I don't disagree but as a functional matter, groups like to cc and they like to cc enemies with specific names on trash pulls, rather than the enemies on the farthest left or farthest right. That's where the aggro situation starts going south as a tank. Try vanguard tanking without ES, SG, and MV or shadow tanking without Force Breach and Force Push. I think earlier on, tanks in the know should have been pushing back against excessive cc use.

fire-breath's Avatar


fire-breath
09.09.2013 , 10:18 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
@fire-breath:
Guarding a Tank on TFB NiM can work for some groups. It depends a lot on your setups. For first phase, we normally guard the persons that take the most damage from lightning field and could be killed by heirad afterwards.
For the second phase and third phase, i think it's viable to guard a tank.
Definetly a good option indeed

Quote: Originally Posted by THoK-Zeus View Post
Guarding dps should because of aggro problems should normally not be important. As an assassin i can generate about 50k threat in the first 10 seconds (don't know about other tanking classes). Even when melee dps is then pulling more then 5,5k dps in the first 10 seconds (range dps would even need 6,5k dps) you still have 2 taunts to easily get back on top of the aggro table.
Hmm ... 50k threat is tricky. Yesterday I did a TfB NiM on my slinger where I ripped of our vanguardtank in the 1st few seconds. I used my attackadrenal, serp assault proc and inspire. In 10 seconds time I generated 54k threat. Thats with a guard and with a bugging surrender (which I will report as a bug in a seperate post).

@ the guy laughing at tanks who guard healers first:
How would you suggest determining which dps rips the most aggro? HP? no option, could be high endurence mods. High gear? he could be not very skilled.
Progression raiding toons on the big RED
Macewindy - Sab Slinger Srh - Shadow Tank
TRE PvP toon
Ishmaldo - Sage healer

ScarletBlaze's Avatar


ScarletBlaze
09.09.2013 , 10:29 AM | #20
Why not let the tank decide who to guard since they are doing the guarding and furthermore do we have the right to tell someone how to play? No.

If they are accomplishing the fp or op does it matter? No. The mission was a success

At the end of the day this is just a game and therefore should be fun.
A southern girl is a girl who knows full well that she can open a door for herself but prefers for the gentleman to do it because it demonstrates a sense of respect. Current Guild Roleplay: Redemption: The battle of Xa Fel https://groups.google.com/forum/?hl=...ps/r-1rAjOuo30