Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

NERF : Guardian Tanks

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes
NERF : Guardian Tanks

Helig's Avatar


Helig
09.05.2013 , 07:40 AM | #291
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
Exactly. So an amazingly imprecise nerf to guardian/juggs would bring nothing to shadow/sins. Except some of them will feel better knowing that other class got nerfed.
Pretty much. That's why I feel such disdain towards this sort of negativity.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

Dragonexadon's Avatar


Dragonexadon
09.05.2013 , 02:14 PM | #292
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Pretty much. That's why I feel such disdain towards this sort of negativity.
In that case lets let this thread die and have more productive threads rise to the top!.
Edit : To ArchangelLBC: I made sure that when I replied to this thread it was already on the very top. To make sure I was not the cause of bumping it when making said comment .
FORCE EFFECT
|US-East || PVP Server || Casual Guild || End Game Operations & PVP
http://www.force-effect.net/

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
09.06.2013 , 12:12 AM | #293
Quote: Originally Posted by Dragonexadon View Post
In that case lets let this thread die and have more productive threads rise to the top!
I was trying, but you idiots keep bumping it =P
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

Simmerr's Avatar


Simmerr
09.07.2013 , 08:34 PM | #294
Quote: Originally Posted by wainot-keel View Post
Exactly. So an amazingly imprecise nerf to guardian/juggs would bring nothing to shadow/sins. Except some of them will feel better knowing that other class got nerfed.
I guess you don't realize that an imprecise nerf started all this, back in 1.7 i think, when the tank tree was nerfed due to guys using dps armor on tankassins to great effect. Instead of nerfing damage, they nerfed survivability, screwing us over for end game tanking down the line.

My point through all of the previous post was that BW doesn't respond to creative suggestions to fix class issues, and instead they just swing the nerf bat, which buff the other two classes at the same time. Don't be mad at these threads, be mad at BW for not using the mounds of data collected regarding shadow tank spikiness to bring the classes in line with each other.
Str'iker -- Assassin Tank
Str'yker -- Merc DPS

starrwalker's Avatar


starrwalker
04.03.2014 , 07:59 PM | #295
I am understanding that a new patch is coming and it consist of ending up nerfing the guardian tank even more than it always is we that play this class has been putting up with this for a long time
and still swtor seems to have no clue.. what is sucks and has suck every since is that a shadow can out tank a guardian which to me is a load of crap I have never care for the way this was done and I never will I tell ya swtor being your developers don't seem to understand jedi knights and even from the beginning of this game you have nerf guardians
so after playing swotor I find myself finally disappointed enough to say I game play time is about up if you do nerf the guardian in any way I shall be done of course I imagine that you don't really care what a paying customer wants and don't mind if some leave your game.. why am I wasting my time playing and paying for a game that is nerf and as one may say lacks balance
rodney moore

Adaliaya's Avatar


Adaliaya
04.04.2014 , 06:29 AM | #296
Well, Guardians are good but honestly Vanguard isn't far behind, and for sure better in some situations. Like Guardian in other situations. And Shadow in some situations

Kawabonga's Avatar


Kawabonga
04.04.2014 , 07:58 AM | #297
Quote: Originally Posted by starrwalker View Post
I am understanding that a new patch is coming and it consist of ending up nerfing the guardian tank even more than it always is we that play this class has been putting up with this for a long time
and still swtor seems to have no clue.. what is sucks and has suck every since is that a shadow can out tank a guardian which to me is a load of crap I have never care for the way this was done and I never will I tell ya swtor being your developers don't seem to understand jedi knights and even from the beginning of this game you have nerf guardians
so after playing swotor I find myself finally disappointed enough to say I game play time is about up if you do nerf the guardian in any way I shall be done of course I imagine that you don't really care what a paying customer wants and don't mind if some leave your game.. why am I wasting my time playing and paying for a game that is nerf and as one may say lacks balance

,,,,,,,,,,............!!!!??? <- here have some of my punctuation, feel free to use it as you please.

And how are guardians being nerfed again?

Alucardess's Avatar


Alucardess
04.04.2014 , 08:04 AM | #298
Holy Mother of Necro.
And Guardian Tanks are being buffed, not nerfed.
A CD that is almost a full heal if used right? Yes, thank you..

Spamfritter's Avatar


Spamfritter
04.04.2014 , 10:29 AM | #299
Quote: Originally Posted by starrwalker View Post
I am understanding that a new patch is coming and it consist of ending up nerfing the guardian tank even more than it always is we that play this class has been putting up with this for a long time
and still swtor seems to have no clue.. what is sucks and has suck every since is that a shadow can out tank a guardian which to me is a load of crap I have never care for the way this was done and I never will I tell ya swtor being your developers don't seem to understand jedi knights and even from the beginning of this game you have nerf guardians
so after playing swotor I find myself finally disappointed enough to say I game play time is about up if you do nerf the guardian in any way I shall be done of course I imagine that you don't really care what a paying customer wants and don't mind if some leave your game.. why am I wasting my time playing and paying for a game that is nerf and as one may say lacks balance
Beyond the fact that this post is so badly written I can barely make sense of it, the content I can identify is just incorrect.

First off the patch isn't nerfing Juggernaut/Guardian tanks. It's buffing them. Secondly, the Assassin doesn't really out tank the Guardian / Juggernaut. It's better for some situations and worse for others. This is the case with all tank classes. And if you actually knew anything about the three tank classes and how they work in actual operations you would know that they are fairly well balanced. (More on this later.)

As for your third point, you couldn't be further off base. BioWare does listen to what their paying customers and others want. The problem is that few people actually understand what's really going on and ask for things that will make the game worse. So BioWare takes action to please the masses that are QQ'ing about this or that. So they swing the nerf bat wildly and buff what doesn't need to be buffed. Most nerfs or buffs tend to address things BAD players ***** about. That's why Sorcs are getting unnecessarily buffed in 2.7, Operatives, Assassin's, Marauders and Juggernauts are getting nerfed. So thanks to BAD players ************ we now have an AoE damage spec in PvP getting nerfed into a mediocre single target spec. This is the kind of logic that results from BioWare listening to their customers and ultimately a great example of what happens when they do. Is this really the kind of stupid **** you want BioWare to do to all the classes? I hope not.

So, BioWare does listen. Sometimes that's the problem. What they need to do often times is stick to their guns and STOP changing what doesn't need changing.

As for the tank classes, an Assassin only "out tanks" Guardian's and Juggernaut's on group mob pulls. That's about it. This is due to better threat generation. But like everything else with tanks this is situational. If Saber Reflect is applicable to the trash pull the Juggernaut and Guardian have the best AoE threat generation. Assassin's are spiky with regard to damage profiles and require a high level of skill to play well as their rotation makes up allot of their mitigation. That is certain abilities add mitigation to their stats which are pretty much the worst in base form.

Juggernaut's and Guardian's have very high base mitigation stats and only one active ability that buffs their mitigation. Assassin's have to work hard to stay alive and Juggernauts and Guardians need to work hard to hold threat. In contrast a Powertech has high base mitigation and their abilities boost that mitigation even further. Unfortunately they don't have any damage stopping abilities like Saber Reflect or Force Shroud and virtually no cool downs to speak of. So when they are spiked hard and end up low on health (which is comparatively rare) the Powertech and Vanguard ends up in a dangerous situation as they just don't have the cooldowns to manage a low health condition for very long. The trade off is that their rotations are incredibly forgiving and their health loss in a fight is usually nice and smooth. They do not excel or suck at threat generation and fall exactly in the middle of the road compared to the other two tanks.

So what we have are three very different tank classes with different play styles each with their own situational advantages and disadvantages. All three are viable for all current content in the game. Hopefully BioWare learns their lesson and doesn't do what they did to Assassin's and Shadows for any tank class when the next round of NiM content arrives.

A bad Guardian/Juggernaut can't hold agro, a bad Vanguard/Powertech will keep on trucking and a bad Shadow/Assassin will simply die.
CE VIP

JouerTue's Avatar


JouerTue
04.10.2014 , 09:23 AM | #300
Quote: Originally Posted by Spamfritter View Post
Beyond the fact that this post is so badly written I can barely make sense of it, the content I can identify is just incorrect.

First off the patch isn't nerfing Juggernaut/Guardian tanks. It's buffing them. Secondly, the Assassin doesn't really out tank the Guardian / Juggernaut. It's better for some situations and worse for others. This is the case with all tank classes. And if you actually knew anything about the three tank classes and how they work in actual operations you would know that they are fairly well balanced. (More on this later.)

As for your third point, you couldn't be further off base. BioWare does listen to what their paying customers and others want. The problem is that few people actually understand what's really going on and ask for things that will make the game worse. So BioWare takes action to please the masses that are QQ'ing about this or that. So they swing the nerf bat wildly and buff what doesn't need to be buffed. Most nerfs or buffs tend to address things BAD players ***** about. That's why Sorcs are getting unnecessarily buffed in 2.7, Operatives, Assassin's, Marauders and Juggernauts are getting nerfed. So thanks to BAD players ************ we now have an AoE damage spec in PvP getting nerfed into a mediocre single target spec. This is the kind of logic that results from BioWare listening to their customers and ultimately a great example of what happens when they do. Is this really the kind of stupid **** you want BioWare to do to all the classes? I hope not.

So, BioWare does listen. Sometimes that's the problem. What they need to do often times is stick to their guns and STOP changing what doesn't need changing.

As for the tank classes, an Assassin only "out tanks" Guardian's and Juggernaut's on group mob pulls. That's about it. This is due to better threat generation. But like everything else with tanks this is situational. If Saber Reflect is applicable to the trash pull the Juggernaut and Guardian have the best AoE threat generation. Assassin's are spiky with regard to damage profiles and require a high level of skill to play well as their rotation makes up allot of their mitigation. That is certain abilities add mitigation to their stats which are pretty much the worst in base form.

Juggernaut's and Guardian's have very high base mitigation stats and only one active ability that buffs their mitigation. Assassin's have to work hard to stay alive and Juggernauts and Guardians need to work hard to hold threat. In contrast a Powertech has high base mitigation and their abilities boost that mitigation even further. Unfortunately they don't have any damage stopping abilities like Saber Reflect or Force Shroud and virtually no cool downs to speak of. So when they are spiked hard and end up low on health (which is comparatively rare) the Powertech and Vanguard ends up in a dangerous situation as they just don't have the cooldowns to manage a low health condition for very long. The trade off is that their rotations are incredibly forgiving and their health loss in a fight is usually nice and smooth. They do not excel or suck at threat generation and fall exactly in the middle of the road compared to the other two tanks.

So what we have are three very different tank classes with different play styles each with their own situational advantages and disadvantages. All three are viable for all current content in the game. Hopefully BioWare learns their lesson and doesn't do what they did to Assassin's and Shadows for any tank class when the next round of NiM content arrives.

A bad Guardian/Juggernaut can't hold agro, a bad Vanguard/Powertech will keep on trucking and a bad Shadow/Assassin will simply die.
<3 thank you