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Fix broken assassins

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Fix broken assassins

cycao's Avatar


cycao
09.06.2013 , 07:10 AM | #51
The only thing that is completely broken for assassins is madness in PvP. Deception is fine it relies 100% on burst damage with next to no sustained, the tanks do have some spike damage issues in PvE from what I hear but that's it as darkness and deception both work on a somewhat competitive level in PvP and I will be playing deception in arenas as I feel small battles makes it work way better now in objective based warzones.

FuriCuri's Avatar


FuriCuri
09.06.2013 , 07:32 AM | #52
Quote: Originally Posted by cycao View Post
The only thing that is completely broken for assassins is madness in PvP. Deception is fine it relies 100% on burst damage with next to no sustained, the tanks do have some spike damage issues in PvE from what I hear but that's it as darkness and deception both work on a somewhat competitive level in PvP and I will be playing deception in arenas as I feel small battles makes it work way better now in objective based warzones.
Deception PvP is not fine at all - no sustain damage makes it inferior compared to Carnage Marauders or MM Snipers.
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Sargrith's Avatar


Sargrith
09.06.2013 , 07:53 AM | #53
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
Mauraders are the second highest parsing class, and unlike sins they don't have to worry about getting their opener or getting procs
Combat sentinels are, not force. And really third in some fights behind scoundrels and gunslingers. But while combat is ok in pvp no one is really talking about that spec. Look a class with stealth and high burst cannot have sustained damaged too, it would be broken. And combat does worry about getting procs......combat also does not have stealth in the manner that shadows do, stealth in pvp that can be up for more then seconds is a huge edge in any fight, and I've yet to see a game that does a good job balancing the power of stealth in pvp.

Personally being able to combat stealth to me is the biggest issue. Maybe for pvp they should think of disabling it...

Avicii's Avatar


Avicii
09.06.2013 , 08:04 AM | #54
Quote: Originally Posted by Sargrith View Post
Combat sentinels are, not force. And really third in some fights behind scoundrels and gunslingers. But while combat is ok in pvp no one is really taking about that spec. Look a class with stealth and high burst cannot have sustained damaged too, it would be broken. And combat does worry about getting procs......
I would hope you don't disagree that rage maras are too strong with the combo of DCDs and rage tree benefits. Cause if sins would be too much there is little denying maras have the best DCDs in the game in conjunction with the offensive power they bring all other melee DPS pale in comparison which arenas will show again. The options really are bring other classes up some or knock them down a peg. Same with Op heals and Jug tanks in those respective roles.

MasterBLASTERpl's Avatar


MasterBLASTERpl
09.06.2013 , 08:24 AM | #55
Quote: Originally Posted by FuriCuri View Post
Deception PvP is not fine at all - no sustain damage makes it inferior compared to Carnage Marauders or MM Snipers.
Hard to say about maras I didn't play this class for ages now I can only talk about their performance from my sorc sin or sniper perspective , but mm snipers are not so cool as you are describing them (edited)

Yes the burst is superb, heavies hitting attacks, class in the mm tree when you get the right rotation feels really great to play but all of this has a price.
Playing a mm sniper is more like playing as your companion (Andronikus for ex) if things will go bad you can't "turn the table" like a sin by trying to ninja cap enemy node, going after enemy healer isn't like a death sentence when (s)he will go Los, above all all your attacks required to be in crouch, once you will be drag out of it you can only pray to be able to toss your flash bang nade.

I won't say mm snipers are bad, I like this class even love it, but I have slightly more fun rolling with my deception sin. At least I don't feel that I'm purely dependable on my team performance and that I can show some kind of the initiative. And this can be seen in my victories because I win more matches on my sin than sniper - tho its not a big problem (and numbers).
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Cordorian's Avatar


Cordorian
09.06.2013 , 08:36 AM | #56
Quote: Originally Posted by Sargrith View Post
Personally being able to combat stealth to me is the biggest issue. Maybe for pvp they should think of disabling it...
a fine idea... if the out of combat mechanics would finally work properly.

Stealth is great in regulars for sure, and combat stealthing is an awesome offensive and defensive CD, but if you are in a DPS race with no further objectives it doesn't help that much (also considering that usually decreases healing on you). Most classes also have AoE to successfully knock assassins and operatives out of stealth successfully, so it can be countered by a competent player.... Being know out of stealth at wrong moment more often than not means death.
Since there is a significant CD on it is not like you can spam combat stealth, but have to use it as dosed as possible and only used when really necessary.
On top of that combat stealth has most of its use in objective based wzs, i.e. node guarding or pestering a node and this stuff. I doubt it will have much effect in Arena, since by the CD you probably could only use it once per round, and it is unlikely that stun locking to death, which in regs still can happen from time to time, will play any factor in Arenas. The only use for combat stealth in arena, will be as the "oh ****" defensive CD for operative healers. Then again you cant heal while stealthed, so a simple target switch shall bring him out of his hiding, and you have a lot of time to take him down again :P

cycao's Avatar


cycao
09.06.2013 , 09:07 AM | #57
Quote: Originally Posted by FuriCuri View Post
Deception PvP is not fine at all - no sustain damage makes it inferior compared to Carnage Marauders or MM Snipers.
One, I rarely see Carnage marauders and you can somewhat stop a good portion of their dps which is ravage with cc, you cannot stop all the instant abilities outside of defensive cooldowns and taunts to help control the damage. While it sounds nice to get some sustained it would make it crazy OP if they did not tone down the burst which I don't think they should. We will not get to have our cake and eat it to. Deception will be fine for ranked arenas with our current burst capabilities in small scale scenarios.

Quote: Originally Posted by Sargrith View Post
Personally being able to combat stealth to me is the biggest issue. Maybe for pvp they should think of disabling it...
Yeah no.

Sargrith's Avatar


Sargrith
09.06.2013 , 09:13 AM | #58
Quote: Originally Posted by Avicii View Post
I would hope you don't disagree that rage maras are too strong with the combo of DCDs and rage tree benefits. Cause if sins would be too much there is little denying maras have the best DCDs in the game in conjunction with the offensive power they bring all other melee DPS pale in comparison which arenas will show again. The options really are bring other classes up some or knock them down a peg. Same with Op heals and Jug tanks in those respective roles.
I agree with you. It's why my sentinel is combat, which by the way is not easy against even decent players since most of their abilities require chaining moves or casts and they have no hard stun that doesn't require channeling. My guardian is my main pvp toon and he is vig so no smasher because of how powerful I think it is. If smash were single target it would be much better in my view. But I would say right now against a solo healer unless they mess up I have no prayer of putting them down while they still throw heals about, I really should change that to an op healer. So I do see the need for being able to damage so hard in an AoE.

Zoom_VI's Avatar


Zoom_VI
09.06.2013 , 09:15 AM | #59
Quote: Originally Posted by Sargrith View Post
Combat sentinels are, not force. And really third in some fights behind scoundrels and gunslingers. But while combat is ok in pvp no one is really talking about that spec. Look a class with stealth and high burst cannot have sustained damaged too, it would be broken. And combat does worry about getting procs......combat also does not have stealth in the manner that shadows do, stealth in pvp that can be up for more then seconds is a huge edge in any fight, and I've yet to see a game that does a good job balancing the power of stealth in pvp.

Personally being able to combat stealth to me is the biggest issue. Maybe for pvp they should think of disabling it...
I am fully aware on how combat works, and you can hardly say rage is bad on sustained either. And are you trying to imply that Sins and operative dps being ablt to combat stealth is somehow OP, while ignoring the fact that sentinels have their own combat stealth.
The argument of burst specs not having any sustained is terrible, BW already said all dps specs should be within 5%. The high burst should be balanced by the in-between abilities putting up low numbers, Where as a true sustained spec, should be putting up steady constant pressure. Besides Deception's burst is RNG dependent, which cannot be said for rage.
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TheCourier-'s Avatar


TheCourier-
09.06.2013 , 10:41 AM | #60
Quote: Originally Posted by Zoom_VI View Post
I am fully aware on how combat works, and you can hardly say rage is bad on sustained either. And are you trying to imply that Sins and operative dps being ablt to combat stealth is somehow OP, while ignoring the fact that sentinels have their own combat stealth.
The argument of burst specs not having any sustained is terrible, BW already said all dps specs should be within 5%. The high burst should be balanced by the in-between abilities putting up low numbers, Where as a true sustained spec, should be putting up steady constant pressure. Besides Deception's burst is RNG dependent, which cannot be said for rage.
Rage spec's single target sustained DPS is awful. Rage only parses around 2750. Carnage is super easy to shut out. Stun the first gore, knockback the second.
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