Why Smash Should Not be Nerfed

LOL, like there's a big difference between 10k and 8 or 9k. And it's not necessarily even the 8 or 9k, its the frequency at which they can do it.

Smash is fine for 8v8, but needs to be toned down for arena.

QQing about smash in regs is pointless, regs can lead to many stacked comps and multiple smashers (much like multiple anything) will roll through regs if the other team does not have the comp/coordination to deal with it.

Mara smash for arena is broken due to the DCDs, jugg smash is not overpowered.

Honestly, BW needs to consider implementing specific changes just for arena that do not affect the rest of the game, currently smash maras are the only melee dps capable of attacking the back line in an organized pvp setting (not that it really matters since ranked 8v8 is going away), nerfing their dcds would make them melt against any sort of competent team in 8v8, but their DCDs must be nerfed for arena to be balanced.

I main a sorc btw, so seeing smash nerfed would be great for me. but is not needed for 8v8 and arena nerfs should (IMO) should be handled by a specific arena mechanic that does not affect PVE/other forms of PVP.

No, there's a pretty big difference there. A sniper can do 8 or 9k damage in the same amount of time, its just not all at once in the flashy way smash is.

No, there's not a big difference between 8-9k vs.10k. 1k health is 1k health regardless of who's dishing it out. That response was specific to that rebuttal that most smashes don't hit for 10k.

And I don't think anyone would argue that snipers sitting real pretty right now, but that's a whole different conversation.

The entire world thought the world was flat? Not trying to be snide, but this is precisely why I made this thread. All these people crying for a nerf seem to encourage people to think the problem is cut and clear and an easy fix, and that everyone thinks it is a problem.

There are plenty of people who don't post on the forums who may disagree with you. There have been several posters on this thread alone who have posed differing opinions.

At the very least, this thread is a place to promote rational, thoughtful discussion on what the real problems are.

Comparing Smash apple to apple to other classes is not helpful. Throwing out hackneyed phrases like "smash monkey" or "pressing one button noob class" is not helpful. You need to consider the Smash AOE and defensive cooldowns in the context of overall balance, and also the role it plays in shutting down some other class that may otherwise be completely OP otherwise.

I think we can all agree that with the balance as it is now, without strong Smash players shutting down the ranged DPS, the gunslingers and DPS sage/sorcs would simply run rampant in this game. Smash is the most viable melee DPS class in this game - make it too squishy or too weak, and what will fill the void? Teams stacked with hybrid Vanguard/Powertech? If anything, the Smash ability itself should be tweaked, not the DCDs. A dead Smasher is putting no pressure at all on healers or ranged DPS. So if you're going to nerf the Smash, then I think you need to give the Smash another CC, or fix resolve so it doesn't fill up as quickly, or something similar, so that it can continue in its all important role of neutralizing ranged DPS and healers. It's a complicated discussion, and blaming Smash in a vacuum is just going to lead to more trouble.

Which is why my preferred solution is a buff to other DPS classes, so somebody else can also neutralize ranged DPS and healers.

In 8v8s you needed at least one sniper, and it was an incredibly clutch class in Huttballs and Novare Coasts (interupting caps with amazing AOE, picking up the huttball). It looks to be a "bit" weak in Arenas but some teams were extremely successful in Arenas with snipers. In full disclosure, we tried running sniper in Arenas for two days running and lost most of our games. But then when we ran our "strong" team, we only lost 2 games, and in 1 of those games the other team had a sniper ("The Turks" - Mara, Operative, Sniper, Assasin).

A large part of shutting down a smasher is simply not letting him stay at melee range (snare/root/stun or run away) or taunting him or spreading out -a little- (almost the smallest aoe in the game, smaller than most grenades, smaller than sorc aoe). It's especially easy because he has to get to melee range to do anything: so he's a perfect target for every cc in the game. At the end of a normal game, even in regs, I can count on 3 fingers the number of full master strikes or chokes my sentinel gets off without being interrupted outside of 1v1s - and those abilities have long cooldowns compared to sorc aoe. Ranged casters do not have nearly the same problem and, if they're smart, they can space themselves such that me going over to interrupt him forces me to ignore his healer and his tank and any other ranged dps (nevermind that no matter how many stun and focus him he's not dropping in <10 seconds).

4 times a minute? Maybe 5 if no one ccs the smasher at all (never happens) and you let him build full centering a couple times? That's actually a low dps vs 1 or 2 targets. And I just had a wz earlier tonight where none of 3 smashers ever got over 6.8k (tanks and healer buffs had me wondering if I forgot to slot my expertise gear for a couple min) and most of my hits were in the 3-4.5k range. I topped the damage charts for the game but neither of the other smashers were in the top 5 (my team won by objectives but it was one of those games where my side got a total of 3 kills and theirs got 30+).

A sniper can't nuke multiple targets for 8-9k with one action.

2 - 3 snipers can't immediately and unstoppably create an AoE area of death where everything inside just dies no matter the healing.

1 sniper can't keep happily dish his first class damage with a sin / shadow on his face.

1 sniper has difficulties stealthing and moving off when his spot really gets too hot.

read very carefully what you just said. because here's what I'm getting: sniper can do the same amount of dmg that a smasher can in the same amount of time but not as fast.

I can only speak for MM, but that's bogus. sniper needs multiple gcds/setup to do what a smasher can right off the bat (enrage+leap > smash). of course, I've only smashed with my jugg, so I cannot speak for mara/sent smashing.