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The Empire seems to have better writing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Empire seems to have better writing

Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
09.03.2013 , 02:52 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by B-Dick View Post
European Union in Space.

Not America, which is a pretty interesting society by modern standards. Other than their lower moral standards, the Republic is far more like the EU.
I always see the Republic as my native Germany (which is also a federal Republic), and during the movies it is basically Germany as Weimar Republic (prequel trilogy) in transition to Nazi Germany (original trilogy).
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DarthOvertone's Avatar


DarthOvertone
09.03.2013 , 03:27 PM | #42
The Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent stories are so good, they just blow everything else away.

I haven't finished the Jedi Knight story yet. I'm on Chapter 3 and it's been pretty rock solid so far, but it's nowhere near the caliber of the SW and IA stories. Maybe the finale will make up for it, but that's going to have to be amazing considering the SW and IA finales were pretty exceptional.

The only story in game I absolutely did not enjoy was the Trooper story. After Chapter One, it was just sort of aimless and completely uninteresting. I will never run that story again. All of the others had some depth though and are worth playing through multiple times imo.
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joshohelp's Avatar


joshohelp
09.03.2013 , 07:03 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthOvertone View Post
The Sith Warrior and Imperial Agent stories are so good, they just blow everything else away.

I haven't finished the Jedi Knight story yet. I'm on Chapter 3 and it's been pretty rock solid so far, but it's nowhere near the caliber of the SW and IA stories. Maybe the finale will make up for it, but that's going to have to be amazing considering the SW and IA finales were pretty exceptional.

The only story in game I absolutely did not enjoy was the Trooper story. After Chapter One, it was just sort of aimless and completely uninteresting. I will never run that story again. All of the others had some depth though and are worth playing through multiple times imo.
The trooper story is my favorite one.

Really for liking the stories it all comes down to preference and what you think is a good story and which class you started out as.

So, I started out as the trooper so i like the action movie - military type stories which also translates to the imperial agent story.

I'm playing a Consular and sith inquisitor right now and i'm enjoying their stories because it's a break from the action packed stories and it's more focused on the personal "The ways of the force" nature of a story.
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.03.2013 , 07:14 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
Maybe you should go back to the game and take a look on the Imperial Agent story, that feels much more heroic then the republic ones, and has very little to do with wantever your fancy is.


Having done the Agent story twice, I disagree. Whatever else I would say about the Agent story "heroic" is pretty close to last.

Quote:
I think the empire works better, because the stories can evoke more emotions, the republic is often to rational and very few choices really feel like choices. One of the few stories I liked on republic side is the companion story the trooper gets with Aric Jorgan. While the empire, pertty much everyone meets Thana Vesh and most end up loving or hating her. The emotional build up is there better. As republic you get pretty much told from the beginning you are awesome, so my character has less of an arc, while being a slave on the empire and watch me rise to power feels different. And then of course all the revenge stories, I am a sucker for those (Hamlet is still my favourite story), and the empire has plenty of them. While the Sith you kill as a Jedi rarely mean anything, they just feel like cannon fodder, and that includes all the losrs and whathaveyou. Maybe Kilran and Malgus are the rare exceptions, but both are in flashpoints and one can be killed by both factions.
I disagree. The Republic gives you some seriously tough alignment choices and puts the characters in situations where the right thing to do isn't as simple as pressing the LS option. Especially the Trooper and Consular stories. There are very good reasons to do a lot of morally questionable things in those stories.

The Inquisitor story, you mention is probably the worst of the game IMO. There is absolutely no sensible justification for the final enemy to have it in for you. The game even says at one point "He does not need a reason." which is a cop-out answer.

The Sith Warrior story was superb, the Agent good, BH great until Act II, and the Inquisitor...meh. But I don't like them any better than the Smuggler, Trooper or Consular stories.

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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.03.2013 , 07:30 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by B-Dick View Post
Writing has been discussed already.
What if feels like, overall, is that the Empire's side was made first and its Republic mirrors added later, some of them outright in a rush. Deliberate, thought-out, proactive class lines; detailed and original planet stories.
Most of the Republic's stories are reactive. "The Empire is doing what? We must go there and stop them!"
I'll bet you anything, it's the reverse. It's absolutely clear to me that the Republic story was written first and designed carefully to lead to the outcome of the Republic winning the war.

I swear I'll never understand why people think the devs spent more time on the Empire or that they favor that side. If anything, the game is designed for the Republic with the Empire as a necessary evil. Think about it. Most of the time, the Empire gets the planets and sides that no one has every heard of.

Who gets to have Mos Eisley on Tatooine? - Republic
Who gets to side with the eventual winner in Alderaan? - Republic
Who gets the ancient capital seen in the movies and featured in most EU material? - Republic

Then think about final bosses:

Republic

Spoiler


Empire

Spoiler


The Republic final bosses lead to serious gains for the Republic while the Imps wind up hurting their side as much or more than the Republic.

Sure, I see why people LIKE the Imperial side more, but why they think it's favored is beyond me.
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Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
09.03.2013 , 08:37 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
Having done the Agent story twice, I disagree. Whatever else I would say about the Agent story "heroic" is pretty close to last.
Have played it only once, and was pretty light (sure, I did also quite a few dark side choices, but most of them were only about mindless destruction and killing, so light got plenty more). I think it depends vastly o how heroic it feels when you decide to be against Darth Jadus. Also, being pretty much the only one against a galactic conspiracy at the end felt quite heroic to me, the kind of heroism that never becomes widely known, but still is saving the galaxy. I liked that.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I disagree. The Republic gives you some seriously tough alignment choices and puts the characters in situations where the right thing to do isn't as simple as pressing the LS option. Especially the Trooper and Consular stories. There are very good reasons to do a lot of morally questionable things in those stories.
I can't remember that I was a single time tempted with my Consular, the trooper had a few choices that were mildly tempting (and I took a few choices in the dark side direction, but with the exception of Jaxo I never had the feeling that I sacrifice anything for those choices).

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
The Inquisitor story, you mention is probably the worst of the game IMO. There is absolutely no sensible justification for the final enemy to have it in for you. The game even says at one point "He does not need a reason." which is a cop-out answer.
I had that feeling at the end of chapter I of the Consular story. Not so much with the enemy, but with the Jedi Council. They are fully aware that My character is the only one who can heal people of that, but still they send me alone, not a single member of the council joins me, that is more than stupid risking the entire Jedi Order by doing so, and I still don't understand why not a single one could get his/her butt up to save the day. Wonder how that order could survive a few thousand years more, with such morons leading it.
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Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.03.2013 , 09:32 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
I'll bet you anything, it's the reverse. It's absolutely clear to me that the Republic story was written first and designed carefully to lead to the outcome of the Republic winning the war.

I swear I'll never understand why people think the devs spent more time on the Empire or that they favor that side. If anything, the game is designed for the Republic with the Empire as a necessary evil. Think about it. Most of the time, the Empire gets the planets and sides that no one has every heard of.

Who gets to have Mos Eisley on Tatooine? - Republic
I agree with basically all of your post, but I would like to note that the Republic's base on Tatooine is at Anchorhead, not Mos Eisley. The Empire controls Mos Ila and Mos Anek.
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.03.2013 , 09:47 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
Have played it only once, and was pretty light (sure, I did also quite a few dark side choices, but most of them were only about mindless destruction and killing, so light got plenty more). I think it depends vastly o how heroic it feels when you decide to be against Darth Jadus. Also, being pretty much the only one against a galactic conspiracy at the end felt quite heroic to me, the kind of heroism that never becomes widely known, but still is saving the galaxy. I liked that.
For me, the light side choices expose the Empire as sick and rotten to the core, unworthy of saving. After Act II, I had no further allegiance to the Empire and just wanted out. I like that the story gives you that....sorta. While I think the Agent story was good, I feel that a 'heroic' person wouldn't be in Imperial Intelligence. Like Kaliyo says, "They're scare of you. You're the freakin' secret police."


Quote:
I had that feeling at the end of chapter I of the Consular story. Not so much with the enemy, but with the Jedi Council. They are fully aware that My character is the only one who can heal people of that, but still they send me alone, not a single member of the council joins me, that is more than stupid risking the entire Jedi Order by doing so, and I still don't understand why not a single one could get his/her butt up to save the day. Wonder how that order could survive a few thousand years more, with such morons leading it.
The same could be said for any of the classes. Why do they send a lone agent after the mastermind of the terrorists? Or after a Galactic wide conspiracy? And how the hell does said conspiracy get stopped by one girl/guy with a little help from home base? This conspiracy has existed for centuries, right? How is it even plausible that it could be dismantled so thoroughly in months?

Why? Because the Agent is awesome. Because the Consular and Trooper and Warrior are awesome. Because you're the main character. You're the protagonist. Not Satele or Syo or Watcher or Zash.

But even if you don't buy that excuse, it's pretty clear that the members of the Jedi council had other stuff to do just from the other stories and there's no way that Syo would so overtly help the Consular for reasons that become clear later on.
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Master-Nala's Avatar


Master-Nala
09.03.2013 , 09:51 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Euphrosyne View Post
I agree with basically all of your post, but I would like to note that the Republic's base on Tatooine is at Anchorhead, not Mos Eisley. The Empire controls Mos Ila and Mos Anek.
That's right. Got those confused.
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Drudenfusz's Avatar


Drudenfusz
09.03.2013 , 10:08 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
For me, the light side choices expose the Empire as sick and rotten to the core, unworthy of saving. After Act II, I had no further allegiance to the Empire and just wanted out. I like that the story gives you that....sorta. While I think the Agent story was good, I feel that a 'heroic' person wouldn't be in Imperial Intelligence. Like Kaliyo says, "They're scare of you. You're the freakin' secret police."
I understand now the perception difference. Sure, the empire is pretty corrupt, but so is the Republic (the SIS appears to be far more ruthless the the imperial intelligience). I had the feeling I have to stay with the empire, because they need me as a conscience, and that my reports can keep the sith lords reasonable and not making everything worse. Ijust couldn't turn my back on the galaxy and watch it burn. I am there for the people of the empire, not a tool for the higher ups! Working the system from the inside instead of abandoning all that. I just couldn't do that, and that urge to stay there, felt heroic.

Quote: Originally Posted by Master-Nala View Post
The same could be said for any of the classes. Why do they send a lone agent after the mastermind of the terrorists? Or after a Galactic wide conspiracy? And how the hell does said conspiracy get stopped by one girl/guy with a little help from home base? This conspiracy has existed for centuries, right? How is it even plausible that it could be dismantled so thoroughly in months?

Why? Because the Agent is awesome. Because the Consular and Trooper and Warrior are awesome. Because you're the main character. You're the protagonist. Not Satele or Syo or Watcher or Zash.

But even if you don't buy that excuse, it's pretty clear that the members of the Jedi council had other stuff to do just from the other stories and there's no way that Syo would so overtly help the Consular for reasons that become clear later on.
Sure, with Syo you are right, but I think that could have been better foreshadowed there. That Satele is staying and do nothing still felt wrong. And no, that other classes also have their own suicidal solo missions is not the same. It is about the future of the entire order, and if anything goes wrong I am the only hope. Nobody would even notice if my agent got killed against the conspiracy, and plenty of other class quest feel the same, sure, you are the hero, but should you fail the situation becomes not that much worse, they send just someone else. I am not sure (have to try it next time I play a trooper again), but even should I fail most of my tasks in Chapter 3, I still guess it would not become impossible to get it finished.

On the other hand, I really thing it would have been awesome if Satele joins me for that mission, like Thana joins imps on Taris... now that I am thinking about it, someone should tell BioWare this, guess they could implement this.
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