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The Empire seems to have better writing

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
The Empire seems to have better writing

FeniceNera's Avatar


FeniceNera
09.03.2013 , 04:23 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by Drudenfusz View Post
Jedi Consular, my main class, has the worst story in SWTOR. The first too worlds are just fetch some holocrons, then the next four worlds are again repetitive, look for some crazy Jedi. No surprises, no interesting choices, nothing! Then chaper two brings at least some variations, but still not very intersting, I only liked the 3rd chapter because with all the folks on board, my ship felt alive and I could feel like a general in war on Correlia, diciding how to move troops, that had a good Obi-Wan in clone wars vibe, but was from a story point of view still weak... and funny, I am to this day not sure if I am now in the Jedi Counsil or not, I didn't killed Syo Bakarn, and there was talk about it, but I think the game never said clearly what my possiotion is now with the Jedi. Anyway, never looked back on that, and mostly just played PvP after that.
Spoiler alert maybe :P? I just arrived on Corellia, damn

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
09.03.2013 , 06:06 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by joshohelp View Post
It has to do with the nature of each side...

the light/ dark - good/ evil thing.
No.

It has to do with something entirely different :

Evil Is Cool

Good Is Boring

Once you see it, it becomes far too obvious.
Complex minds
Cope with
Complex problems.

Heal-To-Full's Avatar


Heal-To-Full
09.03.2013 , 06:21 AM | #23
The Republic clearly got the short stick here. I don't think it's just that it's harder to write for the light side.
Compare an Agent and a Smuggler: Agent's signature ability, Snipe, looks great, he/she gets in cover, aims, and shoots. The Smuggler just sits there awkwardly for a second.
The spec everyone in PvP complains about is the Smash spec. No one calls it Sweep spec, it's Smash - catchier and makes more sense.

Writing has been discussed already.
What if feels like, overall, is that the Empire's side was made first and its Republic mirrors added later, some of them outright in a rush. Deliberate, thought-out, proactive class lines; detailed and original planet stories.
Most of the Republic's stories are reactive. "The Empire is doing what? We must go there and stop them!"

It's always more fun to be the one who puts things in motion than the one who stops them.
Not necessarily evil things. Anything. Establishing something good can be just as fun.
But in this world, the Empire is a force of change and the Republic a force of preservation and stagnation.



There's also another issue - I've always found it pretty hard to play a Light Side character for the Republic and actually feel like one. It's just the amount of mostly unnecessary violence you have to dish out. You get to kill thousands of people, most of whom don't deserve to die... and somehow, you just don't seem to care.

If your adventures happened in a flesh and bone world, your light side Jedi would be walking around with blood dripping from his garments. When you chop people up, their vascular system kinda tends to lose confinement. That lame quest on Coruscant where you help a little girl find her brother or something? If she didn't run away on sight, she would at least be physically scared, not "hello mister".

The Sith get to wear a lot of dark red and black, just perfect for hiding these stains. And even so, playing through Sith storylines, I've encountered a lot more opportunities to spare people's lives than in the Jedi story. Spare some Republic troops here, Organa guards there, let a named character go... your Jedi meanwhile rarely gives it a second though.

As a Sith, I can choose to play as a bloodthirsty killer or as a merciful and honorable warrior. As a Jedi, my character feels like a psychopath either way.
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence of the Sith race and the Sith people, the glory of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the Empire, so that we may fulfill the mission allotted us by the Force itself. Everything must be examined from this point of view and used or rejected according to its utility.

morfius's Avatar


morfius
09.03.2013 , 06:32 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by saremun View Post
Since day 1 the game have been in the favore of the Empirial side in almost everything from animation desgin to armor design etc...

I dont really like to be the evil guy and i dont with the empire and sith BUT because of the lame armor design and Lame animation of the Jedi knight(the oly class i would play besides the trooper) i found the empirial side (every class really) just apealing...

i really wish they redo the animations for the Jedi knight, it still bugs me that a Jedi knight dont have the title Master...
Titles of Knight
Spoiler
"The Aing-Tii have a different view of the Force. Not in terms of Jedi or Dark Jedi—of black and white, as it were—but in a way I like to think of as a full-color rainbow."

morfius's Avatar


morfius
09.03.2013 , 06:36 AM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by B-Dick View Post
The Republic clearly got the short stick here. I don't think it's just that it's harder to write for the light side.
Compare an Agent and a Smuggler: Agent's signature ability, Snipe, looks great, he/she gets in cover, aims, and shoots. The Smuggler just sits there awkwardly for a second.
The spec everyone in PvP complains about is the Smash spec. No one calls it Sweep spec, it's Smash - catchier and makes more sense.

Writing has been discussed already.
What if feels like, overall, is that the Empire's side was made first and its Republic mirrors added later, some of them outright in a rush. Deliberate, thought-out, proactive class lines; detailed and original planet stories.
Most of the Republic's stories are reactive. "The Empire is doing what? We must go there and stop them!"

It's always more fun to be the one who puts things in motion than the one who stops them.
Not necessarily evil things. Anything. Establishing something good can be just as fun.
But in this world, the Empire is a force of change and the Republic a force of preservation and stagnation.



There's also another issue - I've always found it pretty hard to play a Light Side character for the Republic and actually feel like one. It's just the amount of mostly unnecessary violence you have to dish out. You get to kill thousands of people, most of whom don't deserve to die... and somehow, you just don't seem to care.

If your adventures happened in a flesh and bone world, your light side Jedi would be walking around with blood dripping from his garments. When you chop people up, their vascular system kinda tends to lose confinement. That lame quest on Coruscant where you help a little girl find her brother or something? If she didn't run away on sight, she would at least be physically scared, not "hello mister".

The Sith get to wear a lot of dark red and black, just perfect for hiding these stains. And even so, playing through Sith storylines, I've encountered a lot more opportunities to spare people's lives than in the Jedi story. Spare some Republic troops here, Organa guards there, let a named character go... your Jedi meanwhile rarely gives it a second though.

As a Sith, I can choose to play as a bloodthirsty killer or as a merciful and honorable warrior. As a Jedi, my character feels like a psychopath either way.
Smugler story is closer to BH one, not to Agent one (even they are mirrors).
Both Jedi & Sith could be wrapped light & dark ... lightsabers burn wound and there - no blood.
"The Aing-Tii have a different view of the Force. Not in terms of Jedi or Dark Jedi—of black and white, as it were—but in a way I like to think of as a full-color rainbow."

morfius's Avatar


morfius
09.03.2013 , 06:38 AM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
No.

It has to do with something entirely different :

Evil Is Cool

Good Is Boring

Once you see it, it becomes far too obvious.
Dark options in game are more stupid than light ones most of the time.
Have full light & dark ones ... pretty lame both sides.
Some titles and leveling relics don't pay for both ways.
"The Aing-Tii have a different view of the Force. Not in terms of Jedi or Dark Jedi—of black and white, as it were—but in a way I like to think of as a full-color rainbow."

AshlaBoga's Avatar


AshlaBoga
09.03.2013 , 07:05 AM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by AlrikFassbauer View Post
No.

It has to do with something entirely different :

Evil Is Cool

Good Is Boring

Once you see it, it becomes far too obvious.
Nooooooooooo!

TV Tropes will eat your soul!
The dark is generous, and it is patient, and it always wins.
It always wins because it is everywhere.
The brightest light casts the darkest shadow.
Click my Referral Code for free goodies!

DarthDymond's Avatar


DarthDymond
09.03.2013 , 07:16 AM | #28
Spoilers for Sith Inq. and Planetary Story Arcs.
Quote: Originally Posted by Glumish View Post
After playing through SI I found it very odd that there was little to no diplomacy involved, and I kind of expected a lot more manipulation of people to establish a power base and win allies. Instead it was just chasing after artifacts and the like the make myself more powerful in that respect.
I've heard this criticism leveled at the Inq. story a lot, but I honestly didn't see it when I played through on my main.

The Forcewalker thing was drawn out too much, I completely agree that it took over the storyline more than it should have, but there was still a good amount of building your power base depending on how you play it:

Nar Shadda: turning a simple "go fetch this artifact" mission into gaining a cult that worships you personally.
End of Act I: Gaining control of Zash's power base (until Thanaton went and pretty much wiped it out).
The Silencer missions: Gain several Moffs and Admirals as allies, gain your own Superweapon.

But I think the biggest thing for me is that the Planetary quests felt like you were building a power base all along as well:

Tatooine: You gained the loyalty of a group of Imp. Reclamation Service members, replacing Darth Silthar as the Sith they were loyal to.
Alderaan: Installing House Thul as the leaders of Alderaan, for which they are then beholden to you.
Belsavis: Freeing the Dread Masters to learn their considerable powers (yeah, that one didn't work out quite as planned... but hey, Sith happens)
Voss: You became a quasi-religious figure to the Voss as the first outsider Mystic and fulfilling their prophecy.
Corellia: For me the entire planetary arc on Corellia was all about securing Darth Decimus as an ally leading up the showdown with Thanaton, with the added bonus of installing a puppet Prime Minister of Corellia who you know you can intimidate/manipulate (until General Konya went and lost the planet).
Makeb: Securing an alliance with fellow Dark Council member Darth Marr, forming a significant power bloc.

Even with the setbacks you run into, between this and gaining two apprentices, I'd say you build yourself a nice personal power base by the time you gain control of the Sphere of Ancient Knowledge.
One can only match, move by move, the machinations of fate, and thus defy the tyrannous stars. ~Kain

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hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
09.03.2013 , 07:24 AM | #29
Darkside Imperial Makeb didn't make any sense at all to me. It's like the writers forgot that they included this whole daily endgame after you finish the planetary quests and
Spoiler
Or that they weren't writing quests for a single player game.

Euphrosyne's Avatar


Euphrosyne
09.03.2013 , 08:30 AM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Laris_Rai View Post
Because the Empire pays better and doesn't hamper bounty hunters with anywhere near as much red tape as the Republic. The EU spells it out pretty clearly.
You get gobs of random sidequests on most Pub worlds from soldiers willing to pay a minor bounty for a completed mission without contractor authorizations, competitive bidding, or military oversight. The idea that the Republic requires more red tape than the Empire for bounties isn't really borne out by the game itself. But that's not really what I was getting at.

There are loads of minor powers in the galaxy, plus a vast criminal underworld. It's not a binary Empire/Republic thing. Yet the Hunter spends all his time being a good little errand boy for Moffs and Sith Lords; after Tatooine, virtually all his interactions with the likes of the Hutts or the Exchange involve the latter staring down the business end of his blaster. His position is virtually indistinguishable from somebody in the Imperial hierarchy. All those dialogue options about how he's a free agent, and yet the only real demonstration of that comes at the end of Chapter III.
Euphrosynē (n., Greek) - "mirth, merriment"