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Should 2.4 be held off until we get some class balance?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Should 2.4 be held off until we get some class balance?

ImpactHound's Avatar


ImpactHound
08.29.2013 , 10:15 AM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by hadoken View Post
Yea rock/paper/scissors IS balanced. This game is not. Most MMOs are not, doesn't mean to stop trying.
I notice a lot of latency IRL when my opponent makes a selection, and sometimes their global cooldown misfires and I see a different choice than their originally queued ability. I'm not sure how to report this bug.

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
08.29.2013 , 10:23 AM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ImpactHound View Post
I notice a lot of latency IRL when my opponent makes a selection, and sometimes their global cooldown misfires and I see a different choice than their originally queued ability. I'm not sure how to report this bug.
There's probably a doctor somewhere that can help you with that for a nominal fee.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
08.29.2013 , 11:20 AM | #23
I don' t think the game is ready for Arenas, and I certainly do not think it is ready to have Arenas considered as a part of a balance consideration formula.

I think it would have been better to introduce season one, put up the boards, hash it out between PVE and PVP for at least another 6 months and THEN introduce Arenas after a reasonable balance had been struck.

By that time perhaps a method could have been found to apply sets of buffs/debuffs and ability adjustments in PVP to bring about an acceptable balance without effecting PVE in any meaningful way, and that would have been a good frame in which to add Arena.

I am worried they are going to make the same mistakes other games have made when something like Arena PVP was implemented.

Majspuffen's Avatar


Majspuffen
08.29.2013 , 11:41 AM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Ashenti View Post
Class balance is the Holy Grail that all MMO players seek but never find.
I have yet to play an MMo that hasn't had forum full of the vocal-minoruity screaming NERF!NERF!BUFF!BUFF!OP!OP!

Paper says, "Rock is fine, Scissors need a nerf!"
The difference is that other MMOs (at least WoW and GW2) try to achieve class balance by bringing changes whereas Bioware keeps procrastinating. First class balance were coming in 2.4, then they said 2.5 or 2.6... they keep saying "we'll keep a look at the feedback" and then they do nothing with the feedback they receive.

People have different views on class balance but you can't argue with fact, and the fact is that Jedi Shadows and Sith Assassins under-perform immensely in pve, in terms of tanking and dps. If Bioware cared about their feedback and their class balance, Shadows/Assassins would have been buffed in 2.1.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
08.29.2013 , 12:18 PM | #25
True, full balance is never going to happen as long as we have to juggle with PVP and PVE.

Nearly 10 years later, WoW's still not balanced either. The difference with them is they change things way more often so they put one class from top to bottom within a month or two and back again to the point of hilarity.

1 month: Fire mages suck
next month: Fire mages OMG so OP
Next month: Fire Mages nerfed.....suck again
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Arenatah's Avatar


Arenatah
08.29.2013 , 01:20 PM | #26
To put it nicely, implementing arenas with class balance so out of whack (like, not even slightly out of whack, more like holy-crap-some-ACs-are-clearly-useless-for-arenas out of whack) would be a huge mistake.

Look, I know PvP gets no love and arenas are sorely needed at this point, but does anyone really want to play nothing but jug/mara/sniper/op teams?

Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
True, full balance is never going to happen as long as we have to juggle with PVP and PVE.

Nearly 10 years later, WoW's still not balanced either. The difference with them is they change things way more often so they put one class from top to bottom within a month or two and back again to the point of hilarity.

1 month: Fire mages suck
next month: Fire mages OMG so OP
Next month: Fire Mages nerfed.....suck again
Agreed. I think the Blizzard Balance Experiment has conclusively proven that there is no way to balance PvP and PvE around the same skillset. You either change certain mechanics of things depending on the situation and balance each separately, or you limp along trying to keep every class in line with each other which is a Sisyphean struggle.

The balance guys need to be balancing way more often than they are, there's no way around it. You can't just let the classes sit there and stagnate, especially when some have HUGE advantages over others. You can't have a rock-paper-scissors where a handful are rocks and the rest are scissors. You need to be constantly looking at each and evaluating and tweaking and doing it ALL THE TIME. FFS we have maintenance every Tuesday, they could easily have class tweaks going out every other week if they really wanted to. What have the class balance guys been doing for months?!
Retired POT5 Sorc. I failed to heal to full.

RIP IN PIECES ANSALEM. NVR5GET, NEVER5URRENDER.
Beslley - DPS sorc | Arenatah - Snoipah | Nef'arian - DPS op

hadoken's Avatar


hadoken
08.29.2013 , 01:21 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Arenatah View Post
To put it nicely, implementing arenas with class balance so out of whack (like, not even slightly out of whack, more like holy-crap-some-ACs-are-clearly-useless-for-arenas out of whack) would be a huge mistake.

Look, I know PvP gets no love and arenas are sorely needed at this point, but does anyone really want to play nothing but jug/mara/sniper/op teams?
It's pretty much a guarantee at this point that's exactly what is going to happen and dominate.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
08.29.2013 , 01:27 PM | #28
Then the'll nerf them all in 2.5 and there will be much QQ from those classes.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Arenatah's Avatar


Arenatah
08.29.2013 , 01:28 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by chuixupu View Post
Then the'll nerf them all in 2.5 and there will be much QQ from those classes.
And it'll be TO THE GROUND to the point of uselessness I'm sure, and everyone will have to wait a fraking year before we see another "balance patch".

Sigh.
Retired POT5 Sorc. I failed to heal to full.

RIP IN PIECES ANSALEM. NVR5GET, NEVER5URRENDER.
Beslley - DPS sorc | Arenatah - Snoipah | Nef'arian - DPS op

DOHboy's Avatar


DOHboy
08.29.2013 , 01:46 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by hadoken View Post
Yea rock/paper/scissors IS balanced. This game is not. Most MMOs are not, doesn't mean to stop trying.
Rock disagrees said paper is OP and the FOTM and should have a nerf. Feels ok about Scissors but is keeping an eye on them. Paper feels under armored asks for buff since gets obliterated with 2 scissors vs 1 paper...can easily heal to full but loses on DPS especially against single Scissor but is ok when dealing AOE to rocks. Scissors is at top of the DPS especially against single paper but will eventually lose to heavy armored and defensive CDs given to Rock. Scissors asks for mounts to be bigger and complains about items missing from the fluff packs.