Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

NiM Withering Horror Enrage


Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
08.28.2013 , 11:20 PM | #11
really hard to read the few purple/blue stuff, but everyone gave their own opinion, he can decide who / which one works better for their team, i gave him what mine does, my marauder doesnt waste GCD running for adds, thats the skill of doing it,... but then again your points are valid, but dont work for "everyone" as u can see in his dps numbers, hes dps is not the highest, so the more you complicate it the harder it is for people.

everything you say, all the numbers everything sounds find, for your severity gaming group, and my group, but its not so easy for all groups, my guild has 4 different from beyond groups, 2 different Dragonslayers 8 man, all of them followed my strategy up there , i just go with what i am used to from our experience doing it, with variety of successful groups / Setups .... majority to not say all the time we recruit someone new or bring a different strat, its just way more complicated and doesnt help at all, the easier / simple you keep the fight, the easier it is, thats our theory and it works for us , we did the same theory in 16 man last week, they didnt even make it half way to the pool.. 3 orbitals wasted for nothing there, the fastest prob hit once, no reason wasting 6-9k dmg that could be hitting boss ... after all it depends on the group, they will be able to try all this different options and work whatever is the best for them
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
08.29.2013 , 02:52 AM | #12
Your group DPS seems low. If your DPS is around 2.3 - 2.7k, you are going to have very bad time in NiM.

Amantino's Avatar


Amantino
08.29.2013 , 03:57 AM | #13
Yep, your dps needs to improve, thats the harsh truth. You can try maximizing tactics and probably kill it, but that will be the only boss you are going to kill. A group doing 2.3k-2.7k dps on TWH is nowhere near the requirements for NiM. In comparison, I did >3.4k dps on my last kill there on my marauder. Sit down with your dps and try to figure out whats keeping them back. Stacking crit? Bad rotation? Wrong usage of aoe abilities against adds?
Jennifér - Marauder
<Reckoning>

The Red Eclipse

gunte's Avatar


gunte
08.29.2013 , 04:08 AM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
really hard to read the few purple/blue stuff, but everyone gave their own opinion, he can decide who / which one works better for their team, i gave him what mine does, my marauder doesnt waste GCD running for adds, thats the skill of doing it,... but then again your points are valid, but dont work for "everyone" as u can see in his dps numbers, hes dps is not the highest, so the more you complicate it the harder it is for people.

everything you say, all the numbers everything sounds find, for your severity gaming group, and my group, but its not so easy for all groups, my guild has 4 different from beyond groups, 2 different Dragonslayers 8 man, all of them followed my strategy up there , i just go with what i am used to from our experience doing it, with variety of successful groups / Setups .... majority to not say all the time we recruit someone new or bring a different strat, its just way more complicated and doesnt help at all, the easier / simple you keep the fight, the easier it is, thats our theory and it works for us , we did the same theory in 16 man last week, they didnt even make it half way to the pool.. 3 orbitals wasted for nothing there, the fastest prob hit once, no reason wasting 6-9k dmg that could be hitting boss ... after all it depends on the group, they will be able to try all this different options and work whatever is the best for them
He's not saying your strategy doesn't work, obviously it does. But this thread is about maximising DPS because they are having trouble beating the enrage timer.
This is done by having maximum amount of aoe damage on the adds with minimum amount of wasted damage as well as minimum amount of single target damage on the adds.
Ideally you would want all adds dieing at the exact same time on the last tick of any aoe, now this isn't realistically going to happen but that's what we're striving for.

There is no reason for the maras *not* to use saber throw on the adds since they dont have to move to do it, but do NOT put your maras on single target duty on the adds, it wont neccesarily lower their damage ouput (at least if they're not annihilation) but it will transform damage that *could* be aoe into single target thus wasting damage.

My advice would be keep maras on the male, make sure they saberthrow the adds becase again no reason at all not to and save orbitals for the adds. If you have a merc or operative healer make sure they throw down their aoe on the adds as well then have ranged finish it off.

Lastly you say "buffing numbers" by savign aoe on adds is a bad thing? What you have to realise is that the actual hp of the boss is boss hp + adds hp. There is no such thing as useless dps and this group is having enrage issues. Buffing numbers is *exactly* what they need to do right now a.k.a maximising their dps.
In your example you say its wasted to throw down orbitals on adds because you killed them before they got there, well what actually happened was you wasted all your aoe dps by single targetting the adds thus not being able to benefit from aoe (aoe > single target, on multiple targets, surely that is easy to understand)
Aredun - Titans - The Red Eclipse EU
Glory is of no use to the dead.

Check out my youtube - http://www.youtube.com/user/gunte11/videos

AAAAzrael's Avatar


AAAAzrael
08.29.2013 , 04:39 AM | #15
After everything was said by more experienced people before me I can only add our experience as not a competitive guild from top tier but a social guild that only managed to get it's NiM progression running right now.

We had our first serious attempt last night and got a kill on 7th attempt. We gave one pull to dreadguards, so we know now we are nowhere near the requirements and then we went back to farming HM.

We had 3 ranged last night, but normally we would have 2, still we used same strategy we would use. Melee stay on boss. Ranged kill the adds, then switch and kill jelous male quickly. We had severe problems with making it alive to burn phase. It was healer resource management mostly and cleansing so they needed help. Everyone who could cleansed themselves (aparently I dicovered another thing bugged with resilience as it doesn't cleanse it) we had a gunnery commando help with cleansing as well. It appears my guardian co-tank needed a bit more gear then he had (he was taking quite a bit more damage after mitigation but before self-heals). Our sage healer is mostly optimised gearwise but a clicker, my shadow tank is optimised for this fight with 38800 HP after respec to high endurance without sacrificing mitigation and we have fully optimised sentinel. Everyone else is suboptimal but in full 72's except some set-bonus armorings, some have some suboptimal verpine or crafted implants or earpieces.
First time we managed it to enrage we got it at 0% and wiped at 20k HP on boss. Next one was a kill. Before that loosing a tank wiped us every time.

Our philosophy for this fight is to keep it as simple as possible for players so melee shouldn't be really switching targets as they might make mistake, jump to wrong thing and will loose GCD's. At the same time we needed to reduce incoming damage to the group so all strong AOEs were used on adds to absolutely destroy them instantly, same thing for the jelous male. Our dirty fighting slinger actualy respecced to sharpshooter for better switching capability. We do not split DPS to adds and jelous male at the same time also due to fact that overeager rDPS tend to hit the jelous male before tank can even get to it. And loosing aggro on jelous male is not fun. We start with pre-cast flybies from slingers and scoundrel healer, i open the fight on my shadow with power adrenal, AOE taunt after 3 GCD's and single taunt a bit later. I lost aggro once on our first try due to 3 consecutive misses and false GCD bug. Combat sentinel and best geared slinger were guarded.

Overall I think DPS check isn't that tight if our group was fully geared to begin with (which I insisted on but haven't got yet - I recon we are missing between 100-200 DPS per damage dealer due to gear) ) it would have been quite easy after learning the mechanics (stuff would die even quicker and that means less healing required).
We will proceed to farm HM with NIM 1st boss until everyone is fully geared. You guys can also do it.
Ingalaarn Conqueror of the Dread Fortress / Ji'kiley Deposer of the Dread Masters
Joshased From Beyond / Dread Slayer Xartanol
Manticore @ The Red Eclipse

Leafy_Bug's Avatar


Leafy_Bug
08.29.2013 , 05:23 AM | #16
When you have damage everything becomes easier. We lost a few people 1 month ago and had to replace. We also took the opportunity to BIS everyone in our raid team and then go nightmare. What a difference. We practically one shot TWH with our new group. We got to the dreadguards and on our first 5 pulls we got kelsara down to 50% before we all died. My advice, do not do nightmare if you do not have the gear, it will not cut it.


Some of my raid's damage last night on the TWH. I have still not found a way to prevent lag spikes when I stream and this shows on watchman as any delay in abilities drops your DPS significantly.

kaelthy's Avatar


kaelthy
08.29.2013 , 05:27 AM | #17
don't know why you are hitting enrage, my raidgroup did this boss in NiM first try with 2.8k DPS Operative, 2.7k DPS marauder, 2.1k dps marauder and 1.5k dps marauder, didnt even hit enrage.

commanderpaul's Avatar


commanderpaul
08.29.2013 , 05:54 AM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by kaelthy View Post
don't know why you are hitting enrage, my raidgroup did this boss in NiM first try with 2.8k DPS Operative, 2.7k DPS marauder, 2.1k dps marauder and 1.5k dps marauder, didnt even hit enrage.
only way you didnt enrage with that dps is you would've had 2 sin tanks for no adds.....

HBCentaurion's Avatar


HBCentaurion
08.29.2013 , 11:01 AM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by kaelthy View Post
don't know why you are hitting enrage, my raidgroup did this boss in NiM first try with 2.8k DPS Operative, 2.7k DPS marauder, 2.1k dps marauder and 1.5k dps marauder, didnt even hit enrage.
Riiiiiiight

namesaretough's Avatar


namesaretough
08.29.2013 , 11:12 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
in other words, fights are simple, if you make them simple, when you add "more" stuff for people to do: "Male spawn.. mdps on male.. rdps on adds, healers splitting heals on 3 different people, wasting heavy hitter (Death field OR orbital) on something thats not your enrage problem ( adds)... then having sniper wasting time multi targeting male ++ shatter shot, to swap then to boss... you are adding like 5 more stuff to worry about than you should, making heals harder, and encouraging people to do more stuff that cause them to make more mistakes.
If "cast an AOE one place, throw one attack on another target, and go back to dpsing your main focus" is too much for someone to handle, I'd hazard a guess they aren't ready for nightmare.
Smugglin