Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

I do not think there is a tax for hybrids, at least not one worth noting. Some one said 5% would be ok so I looked at my server boards and found the PvE DPS record thread.

All the top parses came within 5% of the top sentinel score except one gunslinger one which might be an outlier and the shadow DPS which is terribly lower then anyone else. The difference between commando, guardian, sage, scoundrel, and sentinel is very small. A hybrid vanguard is at the top of the 5% but within it, and the shadow is more the 10% low....ouch.

I chose sentinel since he is often the benchmark for DPS I would have used gunslinger but with its tip score so high even the sentinel falls outside his 5% level. Note the number 1 gunslinger is a hybrid and I think I know the trick he his pulling to do this, might be wrong would need to read his parse, he could just be real good too, skills makes a big difference. The number 2 gs is within the 5% so there is that.

I know there are issues with parses and all but I still think there is no tax, or a small one at worst.

Here are some scenarios to think about

- I just joined your guild because you need a ranged DPS. I have a Sage and a Gunslinger, both with the same gear. I am proficient with both of them. Which does the guild want me to bring? I bet you the most of them say the GS.

- Same situation but with a melee DPS. Do I bring my Scoundrel or my Sent along? I bet you everyone wants the Sent.

- When it's go time, say the burn phase on Kephess in TFB. Do want to look over and see one of your DPS casting a 2 second heal on himself because he has no Def. CD's or do you want him pumping out DPS?

Are you daft or are you just purposely being annoying?

#1 Any instance of a DPS class not being able to DPS on par with other DPS classes (again within a reasonable margin) only further highlights the class balance problems and proves my point.

#2 I don't even know where to begin with that, it's such an idiotic statement just looking at it gives me a headache! How can you say that heals make up for less DPS under any circumstances?! It's like saying that having eyes can make up for not having ears! But even if we were to assume there was some relevance to that statement, the fact that the afore mentioned heals are virtually obsolete in end game PvE and PvP... or to put it in terms even you can understand: the fact that the heals SUCK, renders it moot.

Lastly I don't think anyone here would have a problem with dropping their latent heals if it meant an even footing with other DPS classes. Oh and FYI I was never referring to myself when I talk about this issue as my extensive experience and knowledge of my class allow me to be within a reasonable margin of other DPS, however, that still puts me at a disadvantage because given my skill with the class if it wasn't for the DPS nerfs arising from the flawed philosophy about which i made this theead I would be dealing much more damage.

P.S. If your posts are only gonna be 2 to 3 sentences you have no excuse not to proof read them and leave all of these typos... It's a common courtesy you owe anyone who tries to read them.

I don't think a sorc would stop to channel a heal, in the same way a Merc wouldn't do that. They could simply bubble and throw their self heal, both of which are instant cast. This is same as Merc's self shield and health monitor.

Last question isn't even to be considered I think. I think the true hybrid tax, as they're calling it, (which is weird because they're not hybrids) is not the DPS, but the DPS -and- the utility. Utility toons are supposed to have lower dps...but on here they have the highest.

A hybrid should never be able to out damage a pure. It is that simple. If you let commando/mercenaries do as much damage as a slinger/sniper, then you're just asking for slinger/sniper to be excluded from content because they can't bring any survival to hardmode/NiM.

Even the disparity a little bit, but don't create absolute parity.

Very true. I mean do we all remember that these are the Devs that said "Commandos can heal and have heavy armor they don't need an interrupt." Before 2.0 Commandos only utility was healing and stealth scan but Vanguards could do that as well.

If Sorcs/Sages are supposed to balance out lack out DPS/Def CD's with healing why is it widely regarded that Sorcs have the lowest survivablitiy?

One thing more I will say that has to be taken into account as a strong defensive cool down all healer/DPS classes have that others do not is the ability to cleanse. That is not a small thing and does add survival to be sure.

Again I am not seeing the tax people keep taking about. I do agree there shouldn't be much of one.

Here is a fact to think about, good players are downing nightmare content with all the classes doing their different roles. Acension, for example, downed nightmare S&V with a shadow DPS pulling off 2500 on the last boss.

If you know your class well then you can compete in the hardest content. You may not make the leader boards on TORparse though for DPS.

Cleanse is great but In wouldn't call it a defensive CD. Especially in DPS spec.

You can point out little boosts that DPS specs get from being able to heal but no one here can say they are just as survivable as the pure DPS classes. With the exception of Ops, the 2 healing DPS's are pretty easy to shut down with interrupts, they can be LoSed, they don't do as much damage as reliably and for the most part they don't have the same survivablity or group utility.