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Can we get a developer dialogue going on why class stories are not in the cards?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Can we get a developer dialogue going on why class stories are not in the cards?

Arkerus's Avatar


Arkerus
08.28.2013 , 11:12 AM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Reading is a skill Arkerus.

I said players were saying there won't be more class stories because of voiceover costs, and then said the devs came in and corrected the players and told them voice over cost wasn't the prohibitive thing preventing that, and that voiceovers are already factored into the budget going forward.

Did I really need to reiterate that? I don't need to stop making things up, you need to learn to read, dude.
"We were led to believe."

"We" being the players. "led to believe" - guided by some force in believing something.
That means someone led you to believe through official outlets. If you believed opinions coming from these forums...you need to learn to...educate yourself. And if you did believe what random people were saying then YOU are to blame. It takes 30 second to google typical VO costs. I did that on day one and I knew that was not the huge problem area in creating more class content.

I need to learn to read...sure bud.
Hooning in the rex : http://youtu.be/xtXUM6yPMCY

MisterBlackJack's Avatar


MisterBlackJack
08.28.2013 , 11:20 AM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
Link?
This is the TORWars link (it wasn't Mos Eisley Radio like I had originally stated). But it appears the podcast is not available at the moment. But here is a quote from one of the comments below expressing his confusion about Hood's confirmation of the Emperor's body destroyed

http://torwars.com/torwars-podcast-9...res-hall-hood/

"Spoilers ahead….

Having played both the Jedi Knight and Sith Warrior stories I’m a bit confused at his explanation of what happened to the Emperor. I was under the impression his actual body wasn’t killed, the body of the Emperor’s voice was killed. The Emperor himself has been secluded in some unknown place. Anyone else thrown off by his comments?"
THE FORCE FIGHTS WITH ME.....IN THE C.E. V.I.P LOUNGE

Jenovan's Avatar


Jenovan
08.28.2013 , 11:50 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Arkerus View Post
"We were led to believe."

"We" being the players. "led to believe" - guided by some force in believing something.
That means someone led you to believe through official outlets. If you believed opinions coming from these forums...you need to learn to...educate yourself. And if you did believe what random people were saying then YOU are to blame. It takes 30 second to google typical VO costs. I did that on day one and I knew that was not the huge problem area in creating more class content.

I need to learn to read...sure bud.
Umm... are you in the right thread? No one said "we were led to believe" anything.

ZH was stating that a number of players were (and still are) vocally assuming that VO costs are an issue. That is a fact (the players spreading incorrect assumptions -- you see it come up constantly in these "why no more story" threads). He then stated that BW has already refuted this. That is also true. You are on the same side of the argument.


Going on...

TL;DR summary: I, too, would like to see new class content in some form, even if it's single quests in the planetary arcs, as some have suggested. I would love to see some discussion from the devs about the why's and why not's of future class content.

Longer commentary: Let's talk about Makeb and "group content" for a moment. Someone(s) on the petition mentioned that "group content" was where things were heading now.

I leveled my main (Mercenary) with a partner (Operative). We did the planetary quests together, bonus series, flashpoints, all that -- but in defining our characters, we always had our own class stories to fall back on (and to share). We're both fans of Bioware storytelling, and have spent plenty of time dissecting our class stories and mulling over the choices we made and the paths we took.

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one. That may fall flat if/when we repeat the Empire side again (I know I will on other characters; I don't know about my partner), but still... When I needed to bring my Jugg tank to a guild run of Toborro's Courtyard, a group of us rushed through the Imp introduction quest. I was annoyed to have to share this content, to not be able to shape the beginning of my Warrior's tale on Makeb as I wanted (because he'll surely be running the rest alone). Apparently, I don't want to participate in "group" story content in the absence of class story content. I doubt I'm completely alone in that.

"Avengers-style storytelling"? Okay, that's cool. But most of the Avengers had/have their own movies (or comic books, if we're staying in the printed realm), too -- and not just as a prelude to their joining the Avengers.

On another tangent: I understand the argument of "but your character is the best/gone rogue/Council member, etc., there's nowhere else to go" -- really, I do -- but, at least on the Empire side, there are always going to be new challenges. Others have mentioned the Sith Warrior's and Agent's quandaries already. Surely the BH has challengers or rivals? I'm sure the Inquisitor's position on the Council is tenuous (aren't they all, really); there could be all kinds of challenges thrown at them from other Council members or ambitious up-and-comers. There are places to go with these storylines, IMO, that don't require making the characters bigger-er and better-er or elevating them to demigod status.
Star Forge * The Thirteenth Legion * RP/Social/Casual
Kjara | Avidior | Mizret | Ysmena
Forging Fortune * Aviditas

ZionHalcyon's Avatar


ZionHalcyon
08.28.2013 , 11:58 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenovan View Post
Umm... are you in the right thread? No one said "we were led to believe" anything.

ZH was stating that a number of players were (and still are) vocally assuming that VO costs are an issue. That is a fact (the players spreading incorrect assumptions -- you see it come up constantly in these "why no more story" threads). He then stated that BW has already refuted this. That is also true. You are on the same side of the argument.


Going on...

TL;DR summary: I, too, would like to see new class content in some form, even if it's single quests in the planetary arcs, as some have suggested. I would love to see some discussion from the devs about the why's and why not's of future class content.

Longer commentary: Let's talk about Makeb and "group content" for a moment. Someone(s) on the petition mentioned that "group content" was where things were heading now.

I leveled my main (Mercenary) with a partner (Operative). We did the planetary quests together, bonus series, flashpoints, all that -- but in defining our characters, we always had our own class stories to fall back on (and to share). We're both fans of Bioware storytelling, and have spent plenty of time dissecting our class stories and mulling over the choices we made and the paths we took.

When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one. That may fall flat if/when we repeat the Empire side again (I know I will on other characters; I don't know about my partner), but still... When I needed to bring my Jugg tank to a guild run of Toborro's Courtyard, a group of us rushed through the Imp introduction quest. I was annoyed to have to share this content, to not be able to shape the beginning of my Warrior's tale on Makeb as I wanted (because he'll surely be running the rest alone). Apparently, I don't want to participate in "group" story content in the absence of class story content. I doubt I'm completely alone in that.

"Avengers-style storytelling"? Okay, that's cool. But most of the Avengers had/have their own movies (or comic books, if we're staying in the printed realm), too -- and not just as a prelude to their joining the Avengers.

On another tangent: I understand the argument of "but your character is the best/gone rogue/Council member, etc., there's nowhere else to go" -- really, I do -- but, at least on the Empire side, there are always going to be new challenges. Others have mentioned the Sith Warrior's and Agent's quandaries already. Surely the BH has challengers or rivals? I'm sure the Inquisitor's position on the Council is tenuous (aren't they all, really); there could be all kinds of challenges thrown at them from other Council members or ambitious up-and-comers. There are places to go with these storylines, IMO, that don't require making the characters bigger-er and better-er or elevating them to demigod status.
Arkerus just feels like he needs to throw his weight around. He does need to learn to read. Now its just ego-soothing on his part.

Anyway, I agree with your point that a lot of the class stories have room to grow, and I think they can be accomplished within the confines of a greater overall planetary story with some class story elements.

The one thing I do have a very hard time with is continuing companion stories. There are just so many, and all of them are indeed close-ended, that I just don't see the value in developing those, as cool as they are, over other story content - I do think however going forward any new companions you unlock (latest being Treek) should have to live up to those standards in terms of companion advancement along with the occasional quest.

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
08.28.2013 , 12:52 PM | #45
I think it is entirely possible for them to do Class Stories again. Not at the level of the original 3 chapters, but they can do *something*. As odd as it may seem to some of us, they may not be getting the message strong enough that people really want it. We might think that because there are several people that make threads about this every now and then that they get that message as strongly as we feel, but their metrics may say otherwise.

Like the print screen not working thing. They say hardly anyone ever reports that as a bug - I'm so sure that everyone has a problem with it but they just don't care enough to report it, but I can't prove that.

And also, I've learned that not all people do. Lots of people I talk to in game declare that they spacebar through all of it. Then there was the guyI had a conversation with at the Cantina event that told me with great enthusiasm how Makeb's dual faction storyline was exactly what he always wanted out of the game, and not class stories.
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

Clarian's Avatar


Clarian
08.28.2013 , 12:53 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenovan View Post
When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll.
I think that's a really good point. The first time I ran Black Talon solo to top off some alignment points, I was amazed at how much more the story shone through compared to running it with a group. The consistency of the choices, and the NPC reactions and other consequences, really added up to a classic Bioware experience. And that's what I'm here for.

Ever since then, I've started space-barring flashpoints when I first run them in groups, because I want as little spoilage as possible before my canon, story, solo run of them (once I've leveled up enough).

There are fun aspects to group play, but for me, story isn't one of them. Nor are they enough to keep me subbed. I'm here for the stories, and for me grouping and stories really don't mix.

iamthehoyden's Avatar


iamthehoyden
08.28.2013 , 01:03 PM | #47
Class-specific quests are not anywhere near the same as a 'Yo! I heard about you, dude! You're the winner of the Great Hunt! Epic! I need you to do this generic task that I could have a Sith or agent do. Later!" "Class-based content" in planetary questlines is quarter-a**ed. Not even half-a**ed. It's cheaper for sure, and the quality of the experience reflects that.

It's not an Avenger-style set up. It's a WoW style set up - you're a generic hero of the Republic/Empire off doing the same damn thing as every other class. Your role in the conflict has been reduced to generic grunt.

Whereas I had been looking forward to playing this game going forward, seeing what else was coming, how the stories played out, at this point I'm doing a lot of looking around at what else is out there, where my friends are going (cause they're leaving by the boatload lately), and generally making plans for gaming after swtor.

Reason I'm still here? A couple classes I have left, a small handful of things I wanted to get done in terms of ops, and a few friends who are still here. Get that? One of the things keeping me here, keeping money going to BW, is the class quests, and with those I'll be going to 50 and stopping because really I don't need to see Makeb yet again.
aren't you a little short for a stormtrooper?
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Jenovan's Avatar


Jenovan
08.28.2013 , 01:08 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by ZionHalcyon View Post
The one thing I do have a very hard time with is continuing companion stories. There are just so many, and all of them are indeed close-ended, that I just don't see the value in developing those, as cool as they are, over other story content - I do think however going forward any new companions you unlock (latest being Treek) should have to live up to those standards in terms of companion advancement along with the occasional quest.
Agreed -- not that I wouldn't love more convos with my crew, but most of their storylines were tied off with neat little bows, and it'd feel awkward picking up again. I *would* like to see more companion input in story quests, but I think these were pretty much limited to class story material in the past, and would probably remain that way, unfortunately. (20+ potential companion reactions to a faction story point? I'd love it, but it seems unlikely... Then again, they DID go and give all the companions unique barks relating to different locations on Makeb, so...)

Quote: Originally Posted by Clarian View Post
I think that's a really good point. The first time I ran Black Talon solo to top off some alignment points, I was amazed at how much more the story shone through compared to running it with a group. The consistency of the choices, and the NPC reactions and other consequences, really added up to a classic Bioware experience. And that's what I'm here for.
Same here. It was, kinda-sorta indirectly, my love of Dragon Age: Origins that led me here. Not Star Wars (I was never really a big fan), not KotOR, which I never finished, but another Bioware story where I played the story I wanted to tell.

(Did you know that if you solo the False Emperor, you get a few tidbits of unique dialogue with Malgus? It felt incredibly epic and completely appropriate for my SW to take him on with only Quinn for backup.)
Star Forge * The Thirteenth Legion * RP/Social/Casual
Kjara | Avidior | Mizret | Ysmena
Forging Fortune * Aviditas

chuixupu's Avatar


chuixupu
08.28.2013 , 01:13 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Jenovan View Post
When Makeb was released, when I understood the scope of the story, I told my partner that I wanted to do the storyline by myself. Why? Because this was not a simple supplement to my class story anymore -- it was the only way to advance my character's story and career that I was going to get on this planet. I wanted the choices made to be hers, not fought over by dice roll. My partner was sort of put off at first, but later agreed that it had been a good idea to play separately, because he was analyzing his choices carefully, same as we would have in a class story.

In other words, in the absence of a true class story, we tried to make Makeb into one
I was the same way. I did the combat parts of the quests in a group with my guildes when it launched, but I exited out of the conversations and did them msyelf because I did not want other people making decisions for me. That's totally fine in repeatable content or just simple boring fetch content, but if we can't make decisions for ourselves to develop our characters in this game THERE IS NO POINT. Might as well not give us decisions at all.

It's also why I have a hard time going through other characters on Makeb. It's not just because I've been through the content, It just reminds me that the story isn't unique to my character. (I know they're not *really* unique, but I like to play the stories through with the idea that they are).
Wardens of Fate / Alea Iacta Est
The Tarkus Legacy ~ The Harbinger/Jedi Covenant

AGSThomas's Avatar


AGSThomas
08.28.2013 , 01:15 PM | #50
The short answer is no. The long answer is No, Too Expensive.
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