Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic
Why must the ability to heal as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?

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metalfenix

08.27.2013 , 07:07 PM \| #41	Quote
In a PvE perspective, If I ever see one of my dps self healing or healing others, I, as a healer, I'm a failure. That's MY responsability, not them. Why Bioware insist on 2 damage trees on the non pure dps classes then? it would be better to have two distinct tank/healer trees and one dps tree then on the non-pure-dps classes.
Koltowolf'Raf Commando Healer / Raf'HiredHealer Mercenary Healer Rafa-el Scoundrel Healer Server: The Harbinger

-IceHawk-

08.27.2013 , 07:19 PM \| #42	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Nempo You don't know how to play them than. My sorc hits 500k damage regularly AND 200k heals by th end of the bigger warzones. Not to be flippant, however in the current environment 500K is pretty much middle of the road. The last time I was that low for a full Warzone I was being tagged by two very annoying Sins who liked to chain punt my butt across NC.
Heal yourself to full, do not, hmm? That is why you fail.

branmakmuffin

08.27.2013 , 08:11 PM \| #43	Quote
Is OP asking to have a character class that does top-notch DPS and top-notch heals at the same time? Why not a class that does top-notch tanking and top-notch DPS? Then we'd only need 2 classes, DPS /healer and DPS/tank. Why not just have a class that does top-notch DPS/tank/heal? I don't like class-based systems, but if we're going to have them, it makes for a more interesting game to have variety in classes.

DarkIntelligence

08.27.2013 , 10:43 PM \| #44	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin Is OP asking to have a character class that does top-notch DPS and top-notch heals at the same time? Why not a class that does top-notch tanking and top-notch DPS? Then we'd only need 2 classes, DPS /healer and DPS/tank. Why not just have a class that does top-notch DPS/tank/heal? I don't like class-based systems, but if we're going to have them, it makes for a more interesting game to have variety in classes. I don't know how you could have possible gotten than from my OP, unless you simply didn't read it. What I clearly stated was that DPS classes with the ability to heal are unjustifiably punished with a lower overall DPS and survivability simply because they have healing abilities. Those abilities, however, not only fail to justify those loses but also are for all intents and purposes entirely obsolete when it comes to both PvE and PvP group content, and not even close to "top-notch" as you seem to imply (or you simply don't know what you are talking about). I will put it in even simpler terms for you: The developers decided that purely DPS advanced classes that happen to have the ability to heal left over from picking that class (i.e. inquisitor --> sorcerer) should not be able to DPS nor have defensive abilities and cooldowns on par with other DPS classes that do not have the ability to heal, because apparently they perceive those latent healing abilities as giving said classes some kind of an advantage when in reality they are all but useless. Those are simply the facts about the state of the game at this time. If you can't grasp that then I can't help you.
The Dark Side of the Force is my only master, the search for power, my only quest. ___________________________________________ _______________________________________

Delmyr

08.27.2013 , 10:52 PM \| #45	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin Is OP asking to have a character class that does top-notch DPS and top-notch heals at the same time? Why not a class that does top-notch tanking and top-notch DPS? Then we'd only need 2 classes, DPS /healer and DPS/tank. Why not just have a class that does top-notch DPS/tank/heal? I don't like class-based systems, but if we're going to have them, it makes for a more interesting game to have variety in classes. I think what the op is getting at is that healing as sage/sorc dps isn't very useful as is. It is highly inefficient all around without compromise of cast time, cost, or power; and the only time you have time to cast it is when you should dps, run away, or not be in trouble. Without a bonus to cast time, cost, or power there is little point in using the heal while you are in "combat" as there is little benefit from it. As an example, being beat up by one dps nets me with a negative gain on health while losing a tremendous amount of resources to cast, but not being under attack also nets me a slightly positive on another person ( any healing on myself can be worthless as my teammates die without me either way as I am effectively "CCed" for the duration of healing). The niche of usefulness is perceptively too small. Healing as dps should help YOUR survivability but not at the cost of your usefulness which is what is happening and why every one is upset at the answers that were given to us.
I see the problem here. Hm, yes. You are suffering from No Challenge Withdrawal. I'm sorry but there is no cure other than getting a full team premade to form a wedge to annihilate those fleeing from the inevitable faceroll.

DarkIntelligence

08.27.2013 , 10:58 PM \| #46	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Delmyr I think what the op is getting at is that healing as sage/sorc dps isn't very useful as is. It is highly inefficient all around without compromise of cast time, cost, or power; and the only time you have time to cast it is when you should dps, run away, or not be in trouble. Without a bonus to cast time, cost, or power there is little point in using the heal while you are in "combat" as there is little benefit from it. As an example, being beat up by one dps nets me with a negative gain on health while losing a tremendous amount of resources to cast, but not being under attack also nets me a slightly positive on another person ( any healing on myself can be worthless as my teammates die without me either way as I am effectively "CCed" for the duration of healing). The niche of usefulness is perceptively too small. Healing as dps should help YOUR survivability but not at the cost of your usefulness which is what is happening and why every one is upset at the answers that were given to us. Exactly, thank you for reading my post.
The Dark Side of the Force is my only master, the search for power, my only quest. ___________________________________________ _______________________________________

GratuaCuun

08.27.2013 , 11:26 PM \| #47	Quote
Devs, buff rock - nerf scissors ~ Paper Speaking AS a sorc player (a HEALING sorc, specced specifically FOR healing) I want you to know that if the devs go crazy and remove our ability to heal others I shall be very sad :P
People who alter or destroy works of art and our cultural heritage for profit or as an exercise of power are barbarians - George Lucas, 1988

Banegio

08.28.2013 , 12:37 AM \| #48	Quote
Not claiming it is conclusive evidence but a point of reference for discussion. Gunslinger/Sniper 3629 Scoundrel/Operative 3248 - can heal Sentinel/Marauder 3221 Commando/Mercenary 3179 - can heal Sage/Sorcerer 3164 - can heal Vanguard/Powertech 3134 Guardian/Juggernaut 3039 Shadow/Assassin 2836 source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=664980 Now carry on with the discussion "Why must the ability to TANK as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?"

mmjarec

08.28.2013 , 12:42 AM \| #49	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by DarkIntelligence I don't know how you could have possible gotten than from my OP, unless you simply didn't read it. What I clearly stated was that DPS classes with the ability to heal are unjustifiably punished with a lower overall DPS and survivability simply because they have healing abilities. Those abilities, however, not only fail to justify those loses but also are for all intents and purposes entirely obsolete when it comes to both PvE and PvP group content, and not even close to "top-notch" as you seem to imply (or you simply don't know what you are talking about). I will put it in even simpler terms for you: The developers decided that purely DPS advanced classes that happen to have the ability to heal left over from picking that class (i.e. inquisitor --> sorcerer) should not be able to DPS nor have defensive abilities and cooldowns on par with other DPS classes that do not have the ability to heal, because apparently they perceive those latent healing abilities as giving said classes some kind of an advantage when in reality they are all but useless. Those are simply the facts about the state of the game at this time. If you can't grasp that then I can't help you. Are you kidding you arent punished with lower survivability your heals are your survivability. Why do you think a ranged class that can heal should even have above aberage dps. You habe more dls than a melee class that cant heal I just played with my 55 sorc and sin and you can snooze while playing a sorc its already ezmode. The only thing tjat is detrimental to your survivability is your playstyle and attitude you arent rambo. You have max distance for a reason and its not face tanking

Glumish

08.28.2013 , 12:54 AM \| #50	Quote
Quote: Originally Posted by Banegio Not claiming it is conclusive evidence but a point of reference for discussion. Gunslinger/Sniper 3629 Scoundrel/Operative 3248 - can heal Sentinel/Marauder 3221 Commando/Mercenary 3179 - can heal Sage/Sorcerer 3164 - can heal Vanguard/Powertech 3134 Guardian/Juggernaut 3039 Shadow/Assassin 2836 source: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=664980 Now carry on with the discussion "Why must the ability to TANK as a DPS = underwhelming performance as a DPS?" Just tank to full. Quote: Originally Posted by GratuaCuun Devs, buff rock - nerf scissors ~ Paper You mean "Rock is fine, nerf scissors." It's supposed to go both ways to show that people will lie that the class they obliterate is fine while the class that wrecks them is overpowered.
Quote: Originally Posted by jedip_enguin However, the fanboys in here are already so excited if they fart they will jump to lightspeed themselves, so if I may I offer some sage words of advice... Check your expectations.

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