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Cybertech Nerf


ManiacDavis's Avatar


ManiacDavis
08.27.2013 , 07:34 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
People are really complaining about this?

So much complaining about there being too many stuns, and the devs do something to reduce that, and people complain about it?

Its times like this i do actually feel sorry for the dev team.
The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.
Man-iac - The Only Commando Left Standing
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
08.27.2013 , 07:36 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by ManiacDavis View Post
The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.
The only person with some sense in this thread.

Morde_'s Avatar


Morde_
08.27.2013 , 07:38 PM | #23
Yes, heaven forbid it will take some team coordination and/or actually looking at a target's debuffs.

Wouldn't want the game to be too difficult now!
Scold
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
I will also offer to duel your marauder, for any amount of money
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
i dont have cold feet. im just not going to give away $300 walking into an unwinnable situation.
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
08.27.2013 , 07:40 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by ManiacDavis View Post
The problem I have with this is the confusion it creates. They are trying to solve the problem of excessive CC by creating another problem where you have no idea if you can actually CC the person. Even though the resolve system has its quirks, it is very clear that when the target's resolve is fully white YOU CANNOT CC THEM. Whereas now, if they have no resolve but got hit by a grenade 2 minutes ago, you just wasted your 3 minute cooldown grenade.

This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.
I can see that, but with competitive 8v8 PvP gone, I can see how having 4 grenades to spam would negatively effect the flow of PvP.

With 4v4 teams, just have 1 guy designated the grenade thrower and there wont be the problem of accidentally wasting it.
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Kevinor's Avatar


Kevinor
08.27.2013 , 07:41 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
So wait, how does this change have anything to do with class AoE cc?
The point is that Knight/Warrior and Smuggler/Agent stacking now gives a slightly bigger payoff; especially in an arena setting. They have zero diminishing returns or immunities to worry about apart from those which are class abilities or the resolve system.

Conversely teams which could rely on grenades to make up for some of their utility shortfalls are hit even harder by this nerf.

Some other downsides:
  1. Idiots in normals or arenas who spam grenades for no reason will punish the rest of the team disproportionately.
  2. A bad grenade with the best of intentions in any setting will punish the rest of the team disproportionately; either in normals or arenas.
  3. Further highlights and compounds utility disparities between classes and specs; for example if I'm healing on my Commando I basically have no way to slow, root, or stun outside of my single target 4 second stun (which every class has, some with a shorter cooldown) or my cast-time single target 8 second mezz.
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ekimmak's Avatar


ekimmak
08.27.2013 , 07:42 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by ManiacDavis View Post
This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.
Do you actually need to check the whole thing? The only time I ever saw people use them was when they wanted another CC when 1v1'ing me. Of course, I only ever saw people use them when I'd been PUG into a lost cause warzone, so that's just as likely why as anything.

I really hope that, if this is going to stick, it'll only apply to the CC. I think the pyro grenade is pretty handy DPS, but it has no CC, and I've never seen anyone complaining about it.
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Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
08.27.2013 , 07:43 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
Yes, heaven forbid it will take some team coordination and/or actually looking at a target's debuffs.

Wouldn't want the game to be too difficult now!
Arena's =/= the whole game.

Sangrar's Avatar


Sangrar
08.27.2013 , 07:47 PM | #28
I think this is a fair nerf. Luckily Bioware did not remove the grenades at all and my cooldown on grenades I think is 3 minutes anyway so I think its fair.


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ManiacDavis's Avatar


ManiacDavis
08.27.2013 , 07:58 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by ekimmak View Post
Do you actually need to check the whole thing? The only time I ever saw people use them was when they wanted another CC when 1v1'ing me. Of course, I only ever saw people use them when I'd been PUG into a lost cause warzone, so that's just as likely why as anything.

I really hope that, if this is going to stick, it'll only apply to the CC. I think the pyro grenade is pretty handy DPS, but it has no CC, and I've never seen anyone complaining about it.
When 8v8 ranked warzones still existed, I went through stacks and stacks of grenades. There was no reason not to use them at the competitive level because a well placed grenade when your other CC's were on cooldown could be the difference between victory and loss.

Going back to my main point. Bioware has a way of creating new problems with every proposed solution. Remember when they wanted to reset the CC breaker upon death and we reminded them how we could exploit that, this change is a band-aid for too much CC being in the game + the resolve system needing reworking.

If bioware thinks people are being CC'd too much then make resolve last longer, change the amount of resolve given for CC's, have your CC breaker fill your resolve, at least this way it is clear to every player, whether hardcore or extremely casual when you can CC a target.

@Morde - Bioware should balance for both the hardcore and casual. With solo ranked arenas entering in 2.4, there is no way a team can be as coordinated as a 4 man in voice chat. This is where I am worried, we will get stuck with teammates who do not know how or when to use grenades and this change only makes it harder to coordinate in this aspect. As a result, when I really need to pull that grenade out of my pocket to make a split second savior of my life, it will fail.
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AdmiralParmesan's Avatar


AdmiralParmesan
08.27.2013 , 08:01 PM | #30
an okay change although they really should be removed
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