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Stun after Stun


Helig's Avatar


Helig
08.27.2013 , 12:43 AM | #41
Hard stuns are a boring mechanic. But I don't think they can be replaced just yet - not in the EQ-model MMOs. But the negative impact of stuns can easily be mitigated by making them more counterable.

Stuns could be "converted" to mezzes on a full-Resolve target, ergo, would break if the full-Resovle target is damaged. Would alleviate the frustration with dying to a stunlock with full resolve. Expertise could provide extra damage mitigation while stunned. Many ways to make the most frustrating aspects of the stun mechanic less aggravating.
"I'm not *giving* him cake, I'm *assaulting* him with cake!" - Pinkamena Diane Pie

NogueiraA's Avatar


NogueiraA
08.27.2013 , 12:44 AM | #42
A simple and easy fix for it:
- stun breaker reset on death ONLY IN REGS (non-ranked).
- resolve back to pre 1.4.

Ranked players happy, pugs happy.
English is my 3rd language, sorry for mistakes.
Beta tester, Shadowlands - 16 lvl55 toons.

DarthSabreth's Avatar


DarthSabreth
08.27.2013 , 03:04 AM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Helig View Post
Hard stuns are a boring mechanic. But I don't think they can be replaced just yet - not in the EQ-model MMOs. But the negative impact of stuns can easily be mitigated by making them more counterable.

Stuns could be "converted" to mezzes on a full-Resolve target, ergo, would break if the full-Resovle target is damaged. Would alleviate the frustration with dying to a stunlock with full resolve. Expertise could provide extra damage mitigation while stunned. Many ways to make the most frustrating aspects of the stun mechanic less aggravating.
reduced damage on non damage break stuns is something I have been hooting about since patch 1.4, they should have added it in that patch from the get go. no one asked for the resolve change in 1.4, its silly that they haven't reverted it, esp with arenas around the corner.
"I have brought peace, freedom, justice, and security to my new Empire!" Rip .

Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
08.27.2013 , 03:54 AM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthSabreth View Post
reduced damage on non damage break stuns is something I have been hooting about since patch 1.4, they should have added it in that patch from the get go. no one asked for the resolve change in 1.4, its silly that they haven't reverted it, esp with arenas around the corner.
I agree with you about 1.4, I don't agree about reduced damage.

Actually alot of people whined on the forums about overlapping stuns instantly filling the resolve bar pre 1.4. Personally I agree with you that 1.4 was an unneeded change to resolve since people need to be punished for inappropriate use of stuns (overlapping stuns). Right now bads can spam stun on cooldown, without thinking, and they aren't punished with the target getting full resolve for doing it. That's the crux of the issue, not that there is too many stuns. Stuns haven't changed, Resolve was changed to lower the skill cap for bads who can't hold off the button for a strategic moment.

Evolixe's Avatar


Evolixe
08.27.2013 , 04:02 AM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Rhyn View Post
Pretty ignorant response. When there is this many threads over the last 1.5-2 years about the amount of CC in the game, and the amount of players that have quit over it is an issue. Many people know how to play it but you still are CC'd way more than any other game I have played. There is no skill in killing a player who can't move or has limited control for half the match. The system sucks IMO and diminishing returns would be much better at this point. I know there are fan boys who will disagree but believe it or not you are the minority.
Those people were bad and the game is a better place without them.

Sure, there is a lot of CC going on. But it's coming from both sides.
If you would just be tunneling damage all the time.. now that would be boring.

Deal with it. It's not an unfair system. And to be frank, much preferable over the endless CC you can take in WoW. Since there are like 10 different DR schools there you can keep people in your control for 30 seconds and sometimes even longer. Without exaggerating.
Evolixe [ToFN/PoT5] Exilove
PvE AMR - Livestream - PvP AMR - BiS PvP Mad/Bal - BiS PvP Dec/Infi
Quote:
Open yourself to suggestions from others.
There is so much to be learned from other people no matter how good you are.

Xanas's Avatar


Xanas
08.27.2013 , 04:09 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Draqsko View Post
I agree with you about 1.4, I don't agree about reduced damage.

Actually alot of people whined on the forums about overlapping stuns instantly filling the resolve bar pre 1.4. Personally I agree with you that 1.4 was an unneeded change to resolve since people need to be punished for inappropriate use of stuns (overlapping stuns). Right now bads can spam stun on cooldown, without thinking, and they aren't punished with the target getting full resolve for doing it. That's the crux of the issue, not that there is too many stuns. Stuns haven't changed, Resolve was changed to lower the skill cap for bads who can't hold off the button for a strategic moment.
Do you have any idea how often it can happen to use a stun at the same time (or just about at the same time) as another guy? If you are NOT on voice chat to anounce "i am going to use a stun/mez/whatever" then the chances of this happening is good enough even for pro players.

Then another problem.... You have more then 1 player in a team (obviously). Punishing all the players in a team because 2 random guys (let's say 2) are bad its not a good thing. Those 2 players can white bar a jugg(hutball) and allow him to score.. So should 6 other players be punished because they got those 2 bad players (more then they are already for just having them in there team)?

That was a GOOD change for pugs. In pugs you can't control who you have in a team or anounce when you are about to use a CC so 2 of you don't fire 1 just about at the same time.

Bad play should be punished, random bad luck should NOT be punished or not even close as much (given the above things i said). Pugs vs Premade are bad as hell already... Don't give premades (voice chat) even more of a bonus...

Fixiooo's Avatar


Fixiooo
08.27.2013 , 05:57 AM | #47
Remove resolve. Introduce diminishing returns on stuns. You get stunned once = full duration. You get stunned again right after = it will last the half of the supposed duration. Now you're immune for several seconds to stuns (which could be described as a full internal resolve bar).

Draqsko's Avatar


Draqsko
08.27.2013 , 02:41 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Xanas View Post
Do you have any idea how often it can happen to use a stun at the same time (or just about at the same time) as another guy? If you are NOT on voice chat to anounce "i am going to use a stun/mez/whatever" then the chances of this happening is good enough even for pro players.

Then another problem.... You have more then 1 player in a team (obviously). Punishing all the players in a team because 2 random guys (let's say 2) are bad its not a good thing. Those 2 players can white bar a jugg(hutball) and allow him to score.. So should 6 other players be punished because they got those 2 bad players (more then they are already for just having them in there team)?

That was a GOOD change for pugs. In pugs you can't control who you have in a team or anounce when you are about to use a CC so 2 of you don't fire 1 just about at the same time.

Bad play should be punished, random bad luck should NOT be punished or not even close as much (given the above things i said). Pugs vs Premade are bad as hell already... Don't give premades (voice chat) even more of a bonus...
I run pugs and premades all the time, and just like everyone else pre 1.4 I learned to hold my stuns for strategic moments just to avoid white barring people so you could stun them when you really needed it. I'm sure if they rolled back the changes to resolve, most people would learn to hold back the stun button until they really needed it.

Does it punish the entire team because of perhaps a few bad players? Sure. Can people learn better? Yes. Sometimes negative reinforcement is more powerful of a learning tool than positive reinforcement. Get burned once and most intelligent people learn their lesson and don't get burned again. Resolve 1.4 dumbed down PVP, and made stuns a crutch instead of a tool. Neutering stuns will result in even more dumbing down, oh wait that's right, they're releasing arenas in 2.4, removing the strategy aspect of pvp entirely.. Nevermind, carry on..

PS. Premades already have an added bonus with the new resolve, in that they can overlap stuns/mezzes and keep you locked up far longer than they could pre 1.4. Sure your resolve lasts longer in that case, but it won't help you out much when they just blitzed down your healer during the entire time you were locked up.