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[Sniper Gunslinger Initiative] An opportunity to change Laze Target presents itself

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Sniper
[Sniper Gunslinger Initiative] An opportunity to change Laze Target presents itself

paowee's Avatar


paowee
08.24.2013 , 02:09 PM | #1
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey Snipers!

Laze Target does leave a bit to be desired. As you stated in the question, Snipers already deal some of the highest, most consistent damage in the game, so any change to Laze Target would likely come at a price. For example, we could consider changing Laze Target to increase the critical hit chance of your next Ambush, Explosive Probe, or Takedown by 100% (instead of Snipe) – but would you really want that change if it meant that another minute or two were added to Laze Target’s cooldown?
Time to answer their question. So which one will you pick?

Laze Target 1 min cooldown
Quote:
Auto-crit on next Snipe
Laze Target between 2 and 3 min cooldown
Quote:
Auto-crit on next
Ambush (MM) or
Explosive Probe (Engineering) or
Takedown (Lethality)
This is a welcome change imo that makes Laze Target slightly more interesting in that it affects different abilities depending on what spec you run. BW might consider making this change but they will have to increase its cooldown by at least 100% if this pushes through



IN COMPARISON TO THE SNIPER COMMUNITY QUESTIONS SHEET:

152% participation
(counting the number of "legit" snipers/slingers in this thread)

VOTES:


I want LT/SL to affect abilities specific to the 3 specs at the cost of increased cooldown
  1. paowee / B'oard
  2. lordahl
  3. cjnj
  4. b-dick
  5. falver
  6. lucky
  7. telanis
  8. mathegmaica
  9. shyroman
  10. kowabonga
  11. masterjacer
  12. darthrunkmonkey
  13. jetreaperz
  14. grimsblood
  15. greg_biochem
  16. Atom_boy
  17. bryceskate
  18. kvandertulip
  19. kingofbob
  20. scytheleven
  21. ziggytank
  22. tipndip
  23. casitas
  24. jboone
  25. solarbreeze
  26. GalnarDegana
  27. ardarelsolo
  28. loveeternal
  29. johnpickard
  30. yindaka
  31. captCody
  32. lord_Viro
  33. carbonmerid
  34. ardarelsolo
  35. vaidinah
  36. arctyc
  37. kenjer
  38. pilgrim_grey
  39. fridge_LM
  40. BKVsDragonCowboy

I want LT/SL to remain as is: Snipe only and a 1 minute cooldown
  1. forsakenking
  2. flyburito
  3. Svii
  4. islander
  5. schooch

I want to see some changes to LT/SL but not this one
  1. notomorrow
  2. thejanitor
  3. phoenixfyre
  4. artikulerien
  5. angelfluttershy
  6. zetaaz
  7. samuela
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
08.24.2013 , 02:21 PM | #2
How about we be more creative? I would like laze target to give us versatilty in the way how we play our sniper.

Laze target upgrades your next Shatter Shot or Legshot damage to that of a Snipe, the ability itself will count as a snipe for purposes of FT proccing.

This way you don't waste 1 GCD for just a debuff or root, you are doing actual damage with it, and it's instant.

45s CD is probably ok. This way you can have some more mobile DPS while applying shattershot/legshot. And it's useful to every spec!

Paowee, would you like your legshots to do 4000 damage?
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
08.24.2013 , 02:33 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
How about we be more creative? I would like laze target to give us versatilty in the way how we play our sniper.
Because in the first place, no amount of justification will convince BW to give us a strong and "biased" buff to Laze Target Smuggler's Luck . even though we don't have a "Recklessness" kind of cooldown, we do enough sustained single target and aoe dot fluff DPS as it is , we are lucky they are even open to giving as a STRONGER BURST in the form of auto-crit Ambush/EP and TD. Their version of Laze Target is very nice compared to what we have right now. We should take this chance.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
08.24.2013 , 02:34 PM | #4
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
How about we be more creative? I would like laze target to give us versatilty in the way how we play our sniper.

Laze target upgrades your next Shatter Shot or Legshot damage to that of a Snipe, the ability itself will count as a snipe for purposes of FT proccing.

This way you don't waste 1 GCD for just a debuff or root, you are doing actual damage with it, and it's instant.

45s CD is probably ok. This way you can have some more mobile DPS while applying shattershot/legshot. And it's useful to every spec!

Paowee, would you like your legshots to do 4000 damage?
As cool as that would be, it doesn't really help pve too much, just gives us a cheaper snipe, altho the mobility would be nice. I'd love this in pvp tho

As far as the 3 sec of 30% crit chance goes tbh I don't really like it. Something like that just mixes things up too much and I feel wouldn't be even between the specs.

On one hand you get MM's boosted SoS and FT

Engi is say imidiately after PP with SoS, so you get a couple of the initial ticks of PP, reg SoS and all the ER ticks that join in the fun, but u gotta get the timing right so u may have to delay this to wait for the long CDs

And finally for lethality and hybrid we would get a cull, with that whole volcano of dots that follow, and dam all those crits would hurt.

I wouldn't know what to say, would be nice but certainly not necessary
CJuice Sandwich-lazy sage seer || Cmeat Sandwich- fat blind engi sniper
lil'cmeat Sandwich- it's a lil Cmeat! Gunslinger || Naked-snake- looks more like plissken, scoundrel
Laziness is a skill

paowee's Avatar


paowee
08.24.2013 , 02:37 PM | #5
So i take it you two would rather have the old Laze Target than BW's new one?
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Heal-To-Full's Avatar


Heal-To-Full
08.24.2013 , 02:39 PM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
How about we be more creative?
Make laze target upgrade your next Shatter Shot or Legshot damage to that of a Snipe, make ability itself count as a snipe for purposes of FT proccing.
The problem with Snipers is they are a fairly weak class in PvP.
Now, I can hear even weaker classes complaining. Yes. But people rolled snipers just to be PvP DPS... and if you look at top Arena compositions, none of them include snipers. Powertechs are represented even , but no snipers.

Snipers don't need more creative tricks. They have plenty of tricks... just that no one cares about tricks.
What snipers need, especially with the advent of Arena PvP, is to be the class with top single target burst.

In all other regards, Marauders and Juggs are simply so much better. They are far tougher, they protect you instead of needing protection, they disrupt the enemy instead of trying to defend against disruption. A sniper brings nothing to a deathmatch team that already has Juggs or Maras as DPS.
As of todays, Maras and Juggs also have better burst with their Smash attack. They are strictly superior.

It shouldn't be nerfed. Smashers is the only thing with a chance to actually kill opponents on a ranked team. And high-end PvP can use more killing.
What should be done is Sniper PvP burst to be powered up beyond what a Warrior can deliver. This comes at great expense of being single target instead of AoE, and being delivered by a fragile stationary class instead of an unstoppable leaper.

With all that in mind, I would propose that Laze Target increases the critical chance of your next attack by 100% and makes it, at least, ignore Guard. Preferably outright make it so that your next attack can not be dodged, mitigated, or intercepted.

Of course with an exception for complete immunity type boss shields. It won't be OP, it's just one shot in 2-3 minutes. But at least making it ignore Guard will give Snipers that special something in PvP that will make them worth consideration, with zero impact on PvE. And PvP can use a counter to guarded healers, because if in 8v8 you can at least burn down the tank, in 4v4 you can't do even that.
What we must fight for is to safeguard the existence of the Sith race and the Sith people, the glory of our children and the purity of our blood, the freedom and independence of the Empire, so that we may fulfill the mission allotted us by the Force itself. Everything must be examined from this point of view and used or rejected according to its utility.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
08.24.2013 , 02:45 PM | #7
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Because in the first place, no amount of justification will convince BW to give us a strong and "biased" buff to Laze Target Smuggler's Luck . even though we don't have a "Recklessness" kind of cooldown, we do enough sustained single target and aoe dot fluff DPS as it is , we are lucky they are even open to giving as a STRONGER BURST in the form of auto-crit Ambush/EP and TD. Their version of Laze Target is very nice compared to what we have right now. We should take this chance.
Well yeah, we take whatever we can grab. But i really really don't know if guaranteeing an ambush to crit every 2,5 minutes or so really useful to us. It's at best some extra 3000 damage out there. And in PvP we might as well just have your ambush reflected, deflected, missing, interrupted by diversion, stuns and who knows what.

I have a gripe with current snipe in the game. I don't like this double snipe business they did with MM for ambush reactive shots and FT resets. The second snipe will always be hard casted if the first one is snap shotted. And this is something that just drives me mad.

One more thing: how often we find ourselves paying one GCD for shatter shot incovenient for our rotation in PvP? I have this situation quite often.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

NoTomorrow's Avatar


NoTomorrow
08.24.2013 , 02:49 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by B-Dick View Post
The problem with Snipers is they are a fairly weak class in PvP.
Now, I can hear even weaker classes complaining. Yes. But people rolled snipers just to be PvP DPS... and if you look at top Arena compositions, none of them include snipers. Powertechs are represented even , but no snipers.

Snipers don't need more creative tricks. They have plenty of tricks... just that no one cares about tricks.
What snipers need, especially with the advent of Arena PvP, is to be the class with top single target burst.

In all other regards, Marauders and Juggs are simply so much better. They are far tougher, they protect you instead of needing protection, they disrupt the enemy instead of trying to defend against disruption. A sniper brings nothing to a deathmatch team that already has Juggs or Maras as DPS.
As of todays, Maras and Juggs also have better burst with their Smash attack. They are strictly superior.

It shouldn't be nerfed. Smashers is the only thing with a chance to actually kill opponents on a ranked team. And high-end PvP can use more killing.
What should be done is Sniper PvP burst to be powered up beyond what a Warrior can deliver. This comes at great expense of being single target instead of AoE, and being delivered by a fragile stationary class instead of an unstoppable leaper.

With all that in mind, I would propose that Laze Target increases the critical chance of your next attack by 100% and makes it ignore Guard. Preferably ignore all defenses except for complete immunity type boss shields, it won't be OP, it's just one shot in 2-3 minutes. But at least making it ignore Guard will give Snipers that special something in PvP that will make them worth consideration, with zero impact on PvE.
no no no, it's wayyy too powerful what you are asking. This would lead to a massive QQ storm against snipers. Don't forget that we are the ones that send smashers to respawn. MM is the most powerful smash spec killer in the game simply because we can make crit smashes completely harmless to us with our siege bunker + ballistic dampers + armor (smash is kinetic damage). And all that without even popping our ballistic shield which got improved in 2.0.

You cannot go the route of just MORE damage for the snipers. We have been accused already too often of being an easy class to play.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Scatter Bombs are meant to be a fun bit of extra damage that occurs when you roll into or away from the action. That said, we’re okay with you trapping an unsuspecting enemy for a “wall bang” every now and then.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
08.24.2013 , 02:51 PM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by NoTomorrow View Post
Well yeah, we take whatever we can grab. But i really really don't know if guaranteeing an ambush to crit every 2,5 minutes or so really useful to us. It's at best some extra 3000 damage out there. And in PvP we might as well just have your ambush reflected, deflected, missing, interrupted by diversion, stuns and who knows what.

I have a gripe with current snipe in the game. I don't like this double snipe business they did with MM for ambush reactive shots and FT resets. The second snipe will always be hard casted if the first one is snap shotted. And this is something that just drives me mad.

One more thing: how often we find ourselves paying one GCD for shatter shot incovenient for our rotation in PvP? I have this situation quite often.
This is better than a 4000 Snipe every 1 minute, if you remember to use it, on an ability that always critically hits in the first place.

In PVP:

Quote:
Laze Target scenario:
1.5 sec 8000 ambush - 6000 followthrough in 1.5 seconds is better than
1.5 sec 4000 snipe - 1.5 sec 4000 snipe - 6000 followthrough in 3 seconds
The Lazed Target ambush is a better on-demand reliable BURST DPS combo than what our current Laze Target can ever be.

This thread is not a discussion for what individuals want for Laze Target, but finding out which one among us wants to KEEP THE OLD LAZE TARGET , and which one among us WANTS IT CHANGED AS PER BW's OWN SUGGESTION.

In PVE
This is a perfect and nice change ideal for burst and burn phases.

Kephess The Undying, Dread Master Styrak post Ghost Dragon, etc
Relic + Adrenal + Marauder buffed automatic crit on Ambush for Marksman, on EP for Engineering, and TD for Lethality. Not an astronomical buff, nor should we ask for one, but at least Laze Target is more usual for other specializations (not just MM). Plus it would be nice to see back to back Ambush crits.

Quote:
Dread master styrak
Snipe snipe ft - ambush (crit) ft - sos ft
Snipe snipe ft - lazed ambush (crit) ft - sos ft
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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CJNJ's Avatar


CJNJ
08.24.2013 , 02:57 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
So i take it you two would rather have the old Laze Target than BW's new one?
New one without 3 sec crit buff (EP, Ambush, TD) to be completely even with all 3 specs, as those 3 moves hit rather close. Possibly add some damage to TD in lethality to be completely in line. The crit buff for 3 sec is something we don't need to make the CD longer
CJuice Sandwich-lazy sage seer || Cmeat Sandwich- fat blind engi sniper
lil'cmeat Sandwich- it's a lil Cmeat! Gunslinger || Naked-snake- looks more like plissken, scoundrel
Laziness is a skill