Why The Death of Ranked is a Good Thing

I had a pony once

No i mean im looking forward to saying that when people complain about it.

Id say they removed Ranked 8v8 was because it would disrupt the queuing system.

They would have had to written a reasonable amount of logic into the match making and queuing to also cater for 8v8.

Thats my guess as why it just wasn't left in the game.

The numerous issues that 8v8 had mean it would have been a waste of development resources to build the logic in the new matchmaking system to also cater for 8v8 and therefore why update the queuing system to incorporate a feature that you know is broken and you dont have a fix for it.

So i'm reading that these arenas are just in the normal WZ rotation? Don't even get to opt out of tardmode TDM? Fail bioware....fail.

some of the maps are garbage, but the fact that we'll now have NO OBJECTIVE-BASED MAPS FOR RATED? that's garbage. CW w/o the speeders is fine. HB is great. maybe tweak it like WSG so that there's no issue about autoclick capping or whatnot. objective based maps add variety. the fact that some of them are poorly designed is not a reason to make EVERYTHING TDM.

:2cents:

Wait, arenas are going to be team deathmatch? IMPOSSIBLE! /sarcasm

Nobody's disagreeing with you, I'm not at least. I've stated in other threads already how the 4man options they have in store should only compliment what we have now.. It's obvious.

nice OP. I was just explaining that in our ranked kickball night to several guilds in mumble. I'm stoked. I'm stoked not because "ranked is dying" but because of the direction that they're taking it. They are making it more available to EVERYONE not just guilds that are organized enough to get 8 people in a reasonable comp and skill level (yes, there are various skill levels, which I will get back to).

They admitted that they didn't support it enough, and that the way they thought ranked would go (rank people with similar rating in a match) they couldn't do because of the low population of participants coupled with the dominant teams crushing other teams a bit more casual.

This makes it feasible. The matches will be great for metaworks. Attempting new strategies, etc. It improves the matchmaking system and efficiency. It takes broken ranked maps out of the picture. It's not good the way it is. Glitchy, laggy maps in a ranked system is laughable, because it can't be taken seriously. The Hero engine is bleh, but they are doing the best they can. the best improvement I can see with this game is removing the hero engine and building a new game in this one's image. The best way to do that is to do it behind the scenes (they've been working on this for months and months, this arena system). But if that is JUST TO FULFILL CROSS-SERVER? No point. Waste of money and time, and people would be pissed.

All that said - people have been most positive to this change compared to other changes, especially PvP changes. This makes it more like WPvP which is true PvP. THere's no objective except crushing your opposition, and usually in WPvP you see groups of 4 vs other groups of 4 in a similar area (such as during the tauntaun event on hoth. That was so fun to go around and kill people you see in WZs. I was amazed how easy it was in comparison, when I didn't have to worry about a retarded objective.) I for one, cannot wait to see what happens. I think PvP will get a little closer to even footing as PvE. When it gets more popular, the tweaks will be more balanced and more often, to help eliminate FotM problems, or at least mitigate the drastic disparity of it. Sqweaky wheel gets the oil. The more popular PvP is, the more will be done for it.

The fewer people in a WZ the more aggravated the balance problems between classes is going to seem.

Before I get off on the wrong foot here, let me just say that I like the implementation of the 4v4 ranked scene, and I like the concept of giving every single player on the server the potential to fight for ratings. However, I strongly disagree with removing 8v8 ranked as it is capable of function to what it's truly designed for alongside of the 4v4s, since the new ranked can definitely prove to be a legitamite stepping stone to the other.

Here are my retorts to the OP's post:
100% agreement. That is why I support the new 4v4 ranked queue, even if there will only be one game mode.

However, does the exclusiveness of the ranked 8v8 matches give grounds for complete deletion? This is competition, PvP has always been about escalation. With the implementation of 4v4s, you give the PvP server new incentive to play for ranked comms, rated gear, and to gain an overall sense of the competition that rating introduces to teams (wins and losses actually mattering now to casual players, since they will want rated gear if they enter the ranked queue at all).

4v4s are the perfect stepping stone in this scenario, as no matter what the developers promise, there is nothing a deathmatch arena can produce that will be more intense than a ranked game of two coordinated teams in Huttball, or any actual objective based game mode. The problem of 8v8s is that it's too much of a jump to go from regs to ranked, forming a team being a problem in itself next to forming one that can actually compete. This stepping stone would have been perfect for people to get a taste of ranked competition, where the devs could've added in more rewards to playing the 8v8 ranked matches to give people more incentive to play them. Even then, the 8v8 ranked matches on my server would receive the same level of activity, if not a better one, if they keep 8v8 with 4v4s added in.

So even if the 8v8s are by design, stagnation as you put it, that in itself is not the problem. The problem in the health of PvP was that there was nothing in between the normal que and the top tier level PvP that is 8v8 ranked. With arenas where people can que solo to play in a single game mode with only 4 others AND keeping the top level ranked of 8v8, you create a system where you now have a middle ground, and can satisfy both the casual players and the competitive ones.

This argument could be made in the same light as "what's so special about 2 mill DPS?" or even "what's so skillful about killing other players?". Level of skill varies based on situation, and in some cases, people performing amazing acts in PvP can't always be stapled down to "skillful players always do <blank>"

For example, it may not be amazing to defend a door for 7 minutes while no one is attacking. But it is pretty amazing when the other team is slaughtering you on the door, yet they can't get a plant off because the team defending is capable of positioning, stalling, and surviving for the perfect time periods. It's also considered that hitting high DPS isn't amazing, yet it can be seen as such if you manage to hit 1 mill with over 10 deaths since you can hit numbers even though you're spending so much time in the rez zone.

So, in short, skill is subjective to each player, and if you believe there is no skill in the objective play of competitive ranked, that's your own opinion. But if you plan to argue that 4v4 deathmatches, where only 4 players rather than 8 are accounted for in the planning process and only one possible game mode you can play, will produce more competitive battles than the 8v8s, then you'll be in for a little surprise


I don't see how this is relative to support 8v8 ranked being completely removed. Exploits are common throughout every WZ not just ranked; do you really think deathmatches are going to be perfectly designed as well? This is Bioware we are talking about here, and if there is a way to cheat in a WZ, the mode of 8v8 or 4v4 isn't going to change anything because the new maps will have some sort of exploit undoubtedly (I haven't seen many in the current WZs, but I remember some of them like corner capping in Novare).

As for DCs, again, this is the same case. Just because you have a bigger pool of people doesn't mean it's a faulty game mode, as 4v4s can have the same exact situation. Oh, you lost your healer in deathmatches and now you're playing 3v4 against a tank/healer/2 DPS combo while you don't have any means of healing yourselves? Same impact, different queue.

It's called playing the objective. PvP is not simply designed for just killing each other, based on the way the devs created every single WZ with an objective focus until this recent announcement.

Circling back to my statement earlier, if you feel 4v4 deathmatches are going to produce a level of competition better than 8v8, that's your opinion. But coordinated teams of 8 battling over an objective that could be entirely set away from even killing will always be more of a challenge than straight deathmatches of 4 imo.


You do realize we are talking about PvP here, don't you? Where people would cuss each other out for losses that gave them rewards without any negative game return to them?

If anything, the fact that there are no ties and no commitments to each other will encourage more harassment than "friendly competition" when these regular players enter the ranked queue. It's much easier to cuss out strangers than people you know, where people you hate are usually at the same level as people you don't know for most on the Internet.

Now that they are implementing a queue where your rating is DIRECTLY affected by losses and teams will be based at random role matching, you think people are going to be nicer and more mature to each other in the face of losing? It was easy in regular 8v8 PvP, as people did not cause drama because losing didn't really have any negative effects besides the ego wounds. Now, with a rating that goes down per loss, people are going to cuss out other randoms and bads in the 4v4 queue more than ever before, so the theory that the 4v4s create less drama is a silly optimistic's vision at best.

If the whole removal of 8v8 is because of resource management, then 4v4 would be the better alternative to this kind of play based on how I see it turning out. But to say whether or not they are heading in the right direction is speculative, as they are removing a very influential portion of the game for another that could potentially result in even more problems and drama than before. Keeping both would've created a fantastic state of PvP in this game, yet again, Bioware fails to truly step forward and undo the negative criticism it receives for their very limited capabilities at effectively running an MMO.