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Not so advanced PVP


smilingbee's Avatar


smilingbee
08.13.2013 , 08:32 AM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by Gynarchy View Post
Now that I've gotten that off my chest, I have a question for you all. What can each class do to help peel for a healer or other target that's being focused? I team with enough Juggernauts to know pretty much what I can expect from them (stuns, Intercedes, guards, taunts, etc.) but what can the other classes do to take some of the pressure off someone who is getting his or her face punched in? When I'm playing my Sorc I'll throw a bubble on my teammate, Overload to push away/root any melee attackers, and toss some off heals if I can and then start throwing out the damage on the biggest hitter. Is there something else I can or should be doing? What about the other classes?
Like another poster said, it often boils down to mainly CC. On my own characters, I love how the merc can react to help out someone getting their bacon kicked by throwing my Kolto Shell on them, an instant heal and then Electronet the attacker to slow him down and damage him while he tries to kill my teammate, often followed by a railshot to make him panic a little from the incoming damage (while he's popping his cooldowns he's not attacking my team). A well-placed Death From Above or Orbital strike is great for multiple attackers harrassing someone, it will usually make them scatter (if the teammate is smart enough to stay in the aoe). Stuns/slows/roots/pushbacks/interrupts are obvious choices, including the absolutely awesome reusable grenades (AoE 8 second 70% slow and AoE 4 second mezz can save a lot of butts at once). My PT tank can yank attackers away from their victim and taunt or root them away, and sorc can bubble then pull the teammate to safety. All classes with a healing tree can cleanse many ailments mowing down their friends, including some stuns and root effects and strong DoTs. That's pretty much all I got for my own characters, hope it helps!

AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
08.13.2013 , 11:00 AM | #62
Sents/marauders, if you see a friendly healer trying to kite 3 dps, please pop transcendence/predation respectively! It makes getting away that much easier, and that goes for the rest of your team, not just yourself.
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ZooMzy's Avatar


ZooMzy
08.14.2013 , 04:51 AM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
Sents/marauders, if you see a friendly healer trying to kite 3 dps, please pop transcendence/predation respectively! It makes getting away that much easier, and that goes for the rest of your team, not just yourself.
Seems like a huge waste of 30 stacks of Fury in all specs other than maybe Carnage. Smash gets full Rage and 3 free stacks of Shockwave and Anni gives the team heals based on crits from DoTs. And I say maybe Carnage because of how easy it is to build stacks, even though the Beserk increase to alacrity is more useful and the predation is more useful in different areas like Huttball for ball carriers than to give a healer a speed boost that is only going to give them a few seconds away from DPS.

Speed boost as an operative is the only thing I see that working for since they are mobile healers, even if most successful kiting is done by LoS not overall speed. But if you're expecting to successfully kite smart DPS as a sorc, a little speed boost isn't going to save you.

If you think it will and also think a Marauder/Sentinel wasting their 30 stacks at the same time for you rather than the other benefits it provides to the team, then you're also doing it wrong.

Shinwon's Avatar


Shinwon
08.14.2013 , 06:55 AM | #64
Not to mention Bloodthirst, which gives EVERYONE on the team 15% extra damage.
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ZooMzy's Avatar


ZooMzy
08.14.2013 , 07:14 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Shinwon View Post
Not to mention Bloodthirst, which gives EVERYONE on the team 15% extra damage.
Yeah, although the 5 minute CD is kind of a pain in PvP. I usually try to pop it in the beginning if I'm running on my Mara, since I'll have 30 stacks ready to go and give the team as many chances to benefit from it

Although, I am curious, is it everyone on the team that gets it in the WZs? I know in operations, the only people that benefit from it are the ones in your column of the ops frame and within a certain range, so we always stack the two tanks and two healers on one side and all four DPS on the other to maximize the DPS benefit.

Does that change in WZs though?

Shinwon's Avatar


Shinwon
08.14.2013 , 09:13 AM | #66
To my knowledge, yes. In dual marauder compositions, we try to pop it one after another during high intensity situations where we need to burst down healers fast. It's worked well for us so far.
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AdrianDmitruk's Avatar


AdrianDmitruk
08.15.2013 , 03:31 AM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by ZooMzy View Post
Seems like a huge waste of 30 stacks of Fury in all specs other than maybe Carnage. Smash gets full Rage and 3 free stacks of Shockwave and Anni gives the team heals based on crits from DoTs. And I say maybe Carnage because of how easy it is to build stacks, even though the Beserk increase to alacrity is more useful and the predation is more useful in different areas like Huttball for ball carriers than to give a healer a speed boost that is only going to give them a few seconds away from DPS.

Speed boost as an operative is the only thing I see that working for since they are mobile healers, even if most successful kiting is done by LoS not overall speed. But if you're expecting to successfully kite smart DPS as a sorc, a little speed boost isn't going to save you.

If you think it will and also think a Marauder/Sentinel wasting their 30 stacks at the same time for you rather than the other benefits it provides to the team, then you're also doing it wrong.
Trust me, when I have a combat sent in vent with me (often when I am on my scoundrel), it is NOT wasted

I recognize that for specs other than combat trans is far more of a "major" cooldown to be saved, but there is a good reason why I refer to the above-referenced sent as my friendly neighborhood crack dealer!
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ZooMzy's Avatar


ZooMzy
08.15.2013 , 01:25 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Shinwon View Post
To my knowledge, yes. In dual marauder compositions, we try to pop it one after another during high intensity situations where we need to burst down healers fast. It's worked well for us so far.
Ah, well I'll have to test it as well whenever I can find a connection in my dorms :P

Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
Trust me, when I have a combat sent in vent with me (often when I am on my scoundrel), it is NOT wasted

I recognize that for specs other than combat trans is far more of a "major" cooldown to be saved, but there is a good reason why I refer to the above-referenced sent as my friendly neighborhood crack dealer!
Ok cool.

It's not the predation that needs saving, it's the 30 stacks of Fury. Instead of wasting it on a speed boost, those stacks are better used towards the Beserk buff or even Bloodthirst to help a team. So it's not about managing CDs, it's about not wasting your stacks on something that could've been used to actually benefit someone.

That's wonderful that you'll have someone waste their stacks for you, btw, even if they are most likely hurting the team in the actuality of things. But in all honesty, I don't really care too much, as my obligation to this little argument was to make sure people reading this...

Quote: Originally Posted by AdrianDmitruk View Post
Sents/marauders, if you see a friendly healer trying to kite 3 dps, please pop transcendence/predation respectively! It makes getting away that much easier, and that goes for the rest of your team, not just yourself.
...didn't start thinking it was a good idea

gocard's Avatar


gocard
08.15.2013 , 04:02 PM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by ZooMzy View Post
Ah, well I'll have to test it as well whenever I can find a connection in my dorms :P



Ok cool.

It's not the predation that needs saving, it's the 30 stacks of Fury. Instead of wasting it on a speed boost, those stacks are better used towards the Beserk buff or even Bloodthirst to help a team. So it's not about managing CDs, it's about not wasting your stacks on something that could've been used to actually benefit someone.

That's wonderful that you'll have someone waste their stacks for you, btw, even if they are most likely hurting the team in the actuality of things. But in all honesty, I don't really care too much, as my obligation to this little argument was to make sure people reading this...



...didn't start thinking it was a good idea
If popping transcendence will keep your healer alive who will in return keep the team alive, that seems like a good trade. Plus, it's not difficult to get 30 stacks back up. You also can use force exhaustion to build up 3 stacks of singularity for your next smash. Yes, it will probably reduce your dps, but not as much as standing behind the gate in the respawn area.

Check out Melyn queueing with Synergy. It's a great tutorial on how to coordinate CC caps, and also you can hear them coordinating escapes for healer, which includes popping transcendence: http://www.twitch.tv/melynmeron/b/444450552
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ZooMzy's Avatar


ZooMzy
08.15.2013 , 04:18 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by gocard View Post
If popping transcendence will keep your healer alive who will in return keep the team alive, that seems like a good trade. Plus, it's not difficult to get 30 stacks back up. You also can use force exhaustion to build up 3 stacks of singularity for your next smash. Yes, it will probably reduce your dps, but not as much as standing behind the gate in the respawn area.
Considering how short some lifetimes Maras/Sents have in teams where they are playing an uphill battle, 30 stacks is harder to get in some scenarios. Carnage is the only spec I can see this being useful for, as it does give an actual speed boost while the other two don't really increase much in speed, stacks are easy to build into the 20s even if you're getting three shotted along with the out of combat build up, and the Beserk doesn't give that much of a combat boost with the 30% Alacrity as Smash or Anni's.

However, if this is also for any other healer besides an operative, it's honestly a complete waste. Every second a healer is not healing, the enemy DPS is winning. If a Sorc/Merc healer spends most of their time trying to outrun their opponent, they lose the ability to heal because a majority of their necessary heals are casts, requiring them to stand still. Even then, trading a DPS boost to give a healer a speed boost is going to be a mistake in a majority of the matches, considering a good kiter knows the key to success is from LoS/positioning not outright running away.

Quote: Originally Posted by gocard View Post
Check out Melyn queueing with Synergy. It's a great tutorial on how to coordinate CC caps, and also you can hear them coordinating escapes for healer, which includes popping inspiration: http://www.twitch.tv/melynmeron/b/444450552
Given certain situations, sure it can work. Just like in certain situations, you can abandon a node in Hypergate to collect orbs because you can account for the fact that the enemy may not be attacking it.

Does that mean that in most scenarios, it's a good idea for both of those tactics? In the end, you are taking a risk by making a sacrifice that benefits your output for the team for another person to use in a situation that can easily be countered, beaten (roots, stuns, etc.), and doesn't really give that much of a necessary boost in the first place.

A risk, that does not give much of a return. To me, that is a waste, because you require a perfect setup for that to be effective in a WZ. Which doesn't exist in 99% of the matches.