World PvP is entirely up to you

Yeah.. pretty much. WoW killed open world PvP in theme park MMOs IMO. How? By conditioning the PvP players to not even bother getting out of bed and logging in unless there was candy to be had. They want instanced PvP these days. They talk a good story about open-world PvP and have plenty of excuses why they don't.. but it's contrived IMO. They should just admit they want Instanced PvP on set-piece terrain and predefined candy machines at the exits. There are exceptions to this general case of course, but they are very much a minority IMO.

/Agree.

That said... I don't think it's coming back in any measureable way. Too many people feel exactly as TUXs does.. there must be a reward. I don't really see how a decade of WoW style candy machine PvP gets reversed, except maybe by a good hardcore PvP MMO.. of which there really are not any right now besides EVE. And EVE is it's own special lightening in a bottle IMO. TSW and GW2 both tried and failed IMO.

Beyond a bit of ad hoc OW PvP here and there.. I think we just have to add this to the long list of things WoW did to MMO as a genre over the last decade.

I get your point but wanted to give you a ration of **** for generalizing in your op .

Personally I like both, and don't need incentives to do OWPVP. Problem I perceive is that leaving it strictly up to the player initiative no longer results in any enduring OW action. The players that lived for that bailed a while back, and it's more or less a routine of where/when it happens. Add discouragement caused by game inability to handle decent-sized battles. Ultimately your point still stands, players can still tool up and battle wherever/whenever, but I think more OW dev support would do wonders for boosting it.

And I am starting to see yours. In a perfect world (game), gear would not matter in PvP, which would open it up to every player - new or old. I'm glad you're on Pot5, I am as well (toon name T'ux 99% of the time). I like your attitude - I like that you're not afraid to work for your gear and you understand the value it would have, but you're not using it as a crutch...that's a refreshing attitude.

I'm a firm believer in adding incentive to PvP and PvP areas because I think participation in PvP increases exponentially. The guys with your attitude, don't need incentives...most players do though. MMOs are all about "stuff"...PvE or PvP stuff motivates people.

Don't assume so much. I PvP when I can, with or without reward. However, that's not how the majority of people are...I respect their view on it and I can understand why they want to be rewarded...especially with the gear gap being what it is.

Again, if they removed every reward/loot/drop/token/credit from Ops, you'd see Operations die overnight.

False equivalence.. UNLESS you subscribe to only PvP for rewards... which I believe you indeed to subscribe to.

But the point of the OP was precisely the opposite reason for PvP in the open world.

How can we have Wpvp when it's actively discouraged by BW? Remember that famous story of the gm who shut down the world pvp in outlaws den because it was lagging the server? Not only that, but the guards on high level planets are made to practically one shot anyone trying to invade. You can't invade other towns, you can't invade enemy fleets, and you can't encourage huge wpvp without BW shutting it down. How can you blame the community for the lack of wpvp, when BW themselves go out of their way to make it borderline impossible to do wpvp srsly? Even without the rewards, we can't attack other fleets or bases... which is the heart of Wpvp, disrupting the enemy in the safety of their homes.. which BW has made impossible for us.

And I was so nearly ready to agree with you until this paragraph of your post.

So, you're saying it's fine for people who solely enjoy one playstyle (PvE) to HAVE to do another (PvP) if it only grants access to what you have branded as "optional" content. Does that mean that it would have been equally fine if, before being able to play Novare Coast or Hypergates (these are new extra warzones, so are totally optional), that you needed to finish TfB and S&V HM to unlock them? Personally, I think the event quests should be tailored to the server type they're on.

That aside (Because what PvE'ers chose to do should be irrelevant in a PvP discussion), I don't think we're ever going to see World PvP the likes of which people remember with fond nostalgia. The way that people play MMO's has changed drastically over the years since early MMOs. If we do see it again , it certainly isn't going to be SWTOR. There just isn't enough scope for it here. Organic OWPvP happens when you meet someone who you are capable of attacking (in this game, someone of the opposite faction). But in SWTOR:

• Faction are kept largely separate during "normal" gameplay on planets. You're less likely to encounter enemies, call in reinforcements and start something naturally.
• Low-level ganking (which despite being a really jerky thing to do is an excellent way to goad the other faction into defending it's lowbie areas) is impossible before Nar-Shadaa 20+, but more realistically won't start till Tatooine 24+.
• Flashpoint entrances are all in safe-zones.
• Travel is not quick or fluid (current location -> taxi -> shuttle -> space station -> ship -> space station -> planet -> taxi -> combat), so people don't bother as much getting to something that could be over before they get there.

For all that the onus is on the players to make OWPvP happen, and for all that they could organise it (but because it's so oversubscribed you break the server) or go out actively looking for it (in which case you might not find people interested in staying and fighting), the only OWPvP I've experienced and ever really enjoyed has always happened in an unplanned and organic manner. This game just doesn't have enough opportunities for things to start.

Bioware's design choices are as much to blame as the players are in this.

you mean this... it seems it wasn't discouraged by bioware and your argument has no relevance

other then a lot of people having problems with frame rates open pvp is very possible and so is attacking the other factions outpost as is seen in many you tube videos and in pvp breaking out at world boss fights during the gree events.

as people have said the problem is people wont do it if there is no reward except isolated incidents and they cant give rewards for open pvp because of kill trading and objective trading which is why they eventually gave up on ilum

Not complaining here. Not interested in it as my primary motivation for playing the game. I might possibly take a spin at it once in a while- once in a great while, but I prefer to enjoy things on my terms, and I tend not to mix activities.

In the short form: I don't like being interrupted while doing something. Most often I'm doing PvE things, sooooo...

All that said, I can both see your point and see where your assertion could be challenged. As others have said, there are things the Devs can do to encourage, or make it more attractive to PvP in world for players.

But this is very much a horse to water scenario when you get right down to it, and sure, a good deal of motivation must come from the players themselves. This attitude isn't unique to the PvP demographic either. Roleplayers also frequently blame others for their own lack of motivation.

Shifting blame is what we do best.

Why world pvp in a area with minimal objectives, no real outcomes, no stake at anything? Planetside 2 had better open world pvp then this and all you could do in that game was base defense/attack. And that was a subpar PVP game. What does that tell you?