ETA on Advanced Class change?

My biggest issue with AC changes is gear. I don't want a level 55 commando rolling need on tanking gear just because he wants to make sure he has a set for his alternate AC. That gear is mine because I chose to be a tanking focus. As a Sith juggernaut, I have no need for an off-hand saber, and a marauder has no need for a focus. Therefore, if a focus drops, it should go to the jugg since he chose to be a single saber warrior, and a marauder should get the off-hand saber because they chose to go pure DPS and use two sabers.

If you change up AC's,. gear drops "jump the shark." Also, as a player, you need to have at least one lasting choice that has future consequences (good or bad). If you took the time to read the class and its AC options, and you chose one, that should be a meaningful choice.

My caveat is this: If, and I say IF this does go through it needs to be a ONE-TIME option. If someone can't make up their mind after tasting both options, then they should be stuck with the last choice made. Period.

ok i get some of the "i don't want people changing there AC" complaining; but personally i have rolled 8 toons (4 pubs and 4 imps) all different forms of each class (mercenary, vanguard, juggernaut, sentinel). Saying that i have experienced and played them all to just about max level. Recently i was thinking "maybe i should have rolled the same classes on both sides" (powertech, vanguard, juggernaut, guardian) so i would know the classes better on each side. Now i don't see any reason for me to not be able to pay some fee to make this happen, the story is the same no matter which AC you pick, the companions are the same, your ship is the same. Not sure what would be the problem would be... (i get the gear change could be annoying but you could save comms and get decent gear to grind some FPS and catch up, more fun and faster than leveling new toons imo)

So i really hope to see this option in the future...

I'm sorry if I gave you the impressing that I was trying to take away your right to form your own opinion.

My point was that even if the individual sees them as different specs rather than different classes, the fact remains that they are still different classes in the eyes of the devs, the ruling body. Therefore they are different classes in the game since the devs make the rules and define the classes, not the players. It makes no difference that the individual sees them as the same class, only different specs. The individual can see them however they want, but the facts are not changed by an individual's opinion. The fact that the individual sees them as different specs and not different classes does not change the fact that they ARE different classes in this game as per the devs' statements.

There are some things that are subjective. I like vanilla more than I like chocolate.

Some things are not subjective. I may think the speed limit is too low on some of the roads around where I live, but that does not change the speed limit.

Ah back to the different class thing. Running out of talking points already?

Ah so you just agreed that those new to the AC change they just made, won't actually provide much of a burden on groups. Once again, you avoid the subject by offering insults, kinda typical of you at this point.


I bolded that part for....(see below).


And you just debunked yourself. First you say tons of people will go for the AC change(which means they want it.) and then in the next setence you say that only a "few people" want the change.

So....which is it?

Assassin tanks get a heal.

The part that is bold, that was your opinion and doesn't really have any merit.

Once again, sorry to break it to you, your experience can't speak for every player in the game. So it doesn't hold much merit.

For the bold part- That further proves that the concern you have for "noobs" entering you're gaming experience is already happening. So that talking point doesn't hold much water, since you admit the problem already exist.


Thank you for admitting I am right again. Like you said yourself, the tool-tips aren't enough. Therefore the player has to actually use the skill to really get a feel for it. Hence why the AC change should be at level 45 and stay at 45. Thanks for admitting that yourself.

Once again, just because you think a certain way, doesn't mean you can speak for everyone. This must be hard for you, not enforcing you're personal beliefs on to others.

Once again, another example of entitlement and enforcing personal beliefs on to others. I'm sensing a pattern here.

Whoa whoa. So even though you are against an AC change. You are fine with changing classes with completely different stat make up, story line, companions, ship.

You do understand the difference, don't you? Stop making a mountain out of a mole hill.

No apology necessary.

This is a very close to accurate statement. For it to be completely accurate and not infused with opinion, it would have to state the following....

.....the point remains that they are still likely viewed as fundamentally different class designs in the eyes of the devs, since that is the last public statement about ACs made, many other public statements have been made to that effect, and no statement since that time has said otherwise. They are the ruling body and define the state of features like this for those that play their game.

That would be a completely factual statement. The truth is we do not know how the current dev team views ACs because we have not heard from any of them in this respect, but we can assume they still view them the same way.

Again, I was only pointing out that there is a reason the argument continues. It is not because people ignore facts...it is because this "fact" may be irrelevant based on a persons personal opinion. Since that is likely the case, and many things the devs have indicated are established definitions for the game have changed, one can understand why a person might think otherwise. It is Bioware's fault, IMO, the ambiguity exists in the first place.

1) The statements, as far as I am aware, have not been cut and dry. Instead of saying "we view your AC as your class" they say something like "we view AC's as fundamentally (qualifying word) different class designs".

2) The design of ACs themselves could be seen to lend credence to the idea that ambiguity would be created....they share a story, you don't choose until level 10, there is no AC specific gear that I am aware of, you are still referred to by your base class in many places in the game, they even share a common tree in the spec.

Remember...I'm simply stating that design COULD cause a person to see AC as not being a class based on design despite dev comments. The same was said for appearance progression by some folks in the community AND they turned out to be correct. Notice how folks are not clamoring, generally, for base class change. There is probably a reason for that.

Saying Vanilla is BETTER than chocolate is subjective. If someone you view in high regard, actually makes the vanilla or has authority over you says chocolate is better than vanilla you may not agree. It is difficult to state that others view chocolate as superior so that is a fact.

Here is where your confusion is IMO. We are speaking to the strange exchange that exists between those that view ACs as classes and those that don't. There are those that say ACs are classes because the devs have said so, others say they were not designed that way despite what the devs say.

You may think the speed limit is too low, but someone in authority stating it is what it needs to be does not make that contention a fact...it makes it a fact that that is what they think it needs to be. You think otherwise.

My point was not about changing AC, nor was it saying that viewing AC as anything other than class was a sensible or credible point. It was only that ACs are viewed as classes or not are likely based on a person's individual qualifying criteria...and that can be influenced by poor design.

I can call an SUV a truck all day, but that does not make it a fact. Even if I am an authority on it.

And you're a good example of my suggestion before, that most pro-change won't even comment on and the one that did was against.

To have had a level 50/55 or so of the target advanced class at some point before, where it doesn't matter the faction those were on, so counting Sentinel/Marauder as one and Guardian/Juggernaut as another.

It would have NO effect on you whatsoever to have that requirement. It would however tell that you had experiences with the basics of the target advanced class, leaving only gear & skill acquisition as possible issues.

Getting credits for skills and commendations for new gear can already be done today, we just don't know if you'll get the option to actually change. So if we do get the option to change it would also be good to know plenty ahead of time for those wanting to prepare.

I'm not sure whether the discussion of its affect on the game is valid here, or even whether the "separate class or not" is either. What I'd hope for is that, if they do move in this direction, it is implemented well. I would assume that it would be limited by cost so as not to be a "respec" issue. One time maybe?

I would also suggest that the reason they may be dragging feet on this (if they are at all), is a concern over a diminished pre-end game participation where they would have less players rolling alts, spending more to level those alts etc.

One item that I would like to see supersede this is a field respec (within their AC), or dual spec that would allow players to quickly change spec, bars, gear, interface all in a one button function, for nothing else beyond convenience, especially when trying to form up u-scheduled, or "pick-up raids. I'd rather that then the current resolve of "bland" class requirements on new FPs etc.

Once again, you deliberately misrepresent what I said in order to muddy the waters. I'm starting to sense a pattern here.

Since the devs have never contradicted their statements that AC's are different classes, we never left the different class thing.


I did not agree that those new to a class due to a class change won't provide much of a burden on groups. Here is the portion of my post which you claim is my agreement:


Quote:
"Where did I even mention changing class on the fly, or even changing class multiple times? You are deliberately misrepresenting what I said in order to muddy the waters."

How does that even begin to equate to me agreeing "that those new to a class due to a class change won't provide much of a burden on groups"?


I say nothing to predict the numbers of people who would change their class. YOU claim that multitudes would change their class.

I said that the number of people affected by those who change their class increases exponentially with the number of people who change their class. Therefore, if multitudes of people would change their class, then multitudes would be affected by those who have changed their class, and your argument that a single person changing class affects no one loses its merit, as we are no longer talking about a single person. If it were indeed a single person or even a minority of people changing their class, then maybe your argument would have a little more merit as a few people changing their class will have much less of an impact on the player base than multitudes of people changing their class will have.

If YOU wish to change your stance and claim that allowing class changes will have minimal impact on the player base because there would only be a few people changing their class, that is your choice. But in order for you to claim that the impact will be minimal as few people will change their class, you will have to stop claiming that allowing class changes is something that would be used by multitudes, or a majority of the players.



Unless I am mistaken, assassins do NOT have a heal. They have:

"Harnessed Darkness
Shock and Wither have a [50 / 100]% chance to grant Harnessed Darkness, which makes the next Force Lightning used uninterruptible and immune to pushback. In addition, each stack increases the damage dealt by your next Force Lightning by 25%. Stacks up to 3 times. At 3 stacks, damage dealt by Force Lightning heals you for 2% of your maximum health."

A reasonable person would recognize that this is a passive ability that grants a healing bonus under VERY SPECIFIC CIRCUMSTANCES, not a heal skill. It cannot be used out of combat to heal the assassin, not can it even be cast in combat.

If I am mistaken and assassins actually do get a heal, then please include the name of the heal skill and the tool-tip for that heal.


YOU claimed that tanks don't use taunt now, not me. I pointed out that a tank that doesn't use taunt is a BAD tank. Yes, we have players who don't know their class now. That is not sufficient reason to increase the numbers of players who don;t know their class exponentially by allowing class changes.



Finally, you admit that " the player has to actually use the skill to really get a feel for it". That level 45 or greater is not going to have up to 35 levels to "actually use the skill to really get a feel for it" if you are going to use tool-tips as a justification for allowing class changes, as opposed to actually using those new skills while leveling.


I'm pointing out that you are perfectly fine with allowing SOME class changes, but wish to deny other class changes.

I guess that concept was a little too complex for some individuals. I'll try to type slower next time so as to give those individuals time to process such complex ideas.

When this game was first released I purchased it and played through to level 50 as a Sith Marauder. I did this thinking that advanced class changes were allowed. I didn't even question that functionality, presuming that it would be available.

Once I got to 50 I realised there was no group dungeon queue functionality and that end game content was really not that great. So I stopped playing until now.

Recently I saw that a dungeon queue system had been integrated (although still not cross realm, which is much better because then you can always get a dungeon run within a couple of minutes, 24 hours a day) and you can even edit your UI now. I thought "Fantastic!"; so I bought the expansion and have started playing again.

My first step was going to be to level to 55 and then gear up to tank PVE content. But wait! That functionality isn't even available in this game because they haven't even integrated class changes. So what if I train in the decathlon I can't ever become a Mr. Universe? If I am a baker I can't then go and become a lawyer? Really? Comon.

I guess I'll play my month out and then put this game on hold again until 2.x or 3.x when we can have advanced class changes AND dual spec configurations.

My time is too valuable to me, I have a job and a wife and kids, I'm not going to maintain 8 characters like I did in WoW it just isn't worth it anymore. So I need dual spec so I can do my dailies as DPS and then do my raiding as a Tank. Seems pretty simple to me.

Flame away, I really don't care about your desire for game purity and cannon and all that rubbish. I just want the game to be fun. Having to do dailies as a tank isn't fun. Been there, done that, not interested. I feel a bit cheated actually...

Slight necro, but meh. I really want an ETA on this!

I've played Sniper to 52 now, but I really don't feel like it's a very Imperial Agentish class. It kind of just feels like... shoot shoot shoot. I'd level another Operative, but I have way too much good stuff on my Sniper - the entire Vendetta set, mounts, titles, commendations, affection...

I wouldn't mind it being permanent "you can never change back", even if Operative is nerfed to the ninth circle of hell. I just want to feel more like an Imperial Agent, not an Imperial 360 noscoper.

EDIT: To all the people in here complaining for relatively small reasons (dey'll mess up mah flashpoints! dey turk mah jerb of healing / tanking! the devs said we'd never get a change ever and that's final!) how on Earth does this affect you, honestly? If this gets added and you leave (which many of you are claiming but I sincerely doubt will happen) that's less conservatively-minded people that hate change. And even if this does get added, we aren't forcing you to use this!

If someone moves from one AC to another and manages to severely shoot themselves in the leg with no chance of recovery, that's their problem. If someone goes from playing Sorc like a DPS machine to an Assassin who can't remember where his taunt button is, that's their problem to figure out, not your problem to point out and fume about until you use leave group.