ETA on Advanced Class change?

You would only be incorrect in your assertion that TUXs did not use a statement made BEFORE launch to attempt to refute Majik's post that the devs never said anything about considering class changes since launch. The devs did make a statement after launch about the possibility of allowing class changes, but that was not the statement that TUXs quoted in his original response.

Ah jeez.

Ok, fair enough. If that is the case, my apologies.

I actually find it surprising that something that trivial obscured the fact that Majik was not honest in his post.

And you throwing in with him Ratajack disappoints me greatly. I expected better from you.

I'm not throwing in with Majik. I thought I had made that clear many pages ago. While Majik and I may both be opposed to class changes, that is as far as it goes.

I only responded to TUXs original quote since he chose to be as untruthful as Majik, while calling Majik out for his untruthfulness.

Then I am not being fair and I apologize for that as well.

No worries. I took no offense. I'm sorry I was not more clear as to the point I was making.

Current list, pros and cons as reported by participants.


Option 1

Level 10 to 15 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - 24 hour cooldown - once you reach level 16 AC is permanent - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 2

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - reduction to level 10 with change - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything except XP and quests are unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 3

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 2 changes allowed - no reduction in level - one month cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 4

Level 10 to 30 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 5

Level 10 to 46 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will up to 46 - no reduction in level - no cooldown - once you reach level 47 AC is permanent - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 6

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 7

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum changes, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - Must level one character to max level in an AC to unlock legacy ability to switch AC for that class - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 8

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - maximum 8 changes per account, can change at will - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.

Option 9

Level 10 to 55 - Allow AC Change - no maximum number of changes - must change at AC trainers on fleet - 1 Week cooldown - Option for AC change unlocked as Character Perk for 600 cartel Coins (or 1.5 million credits) - Each subsequent AC change costs 40 cartel coins (or 100,000 credits).

Option 10

Level 40 to 55 - Allow AC Change - max 1 change allowed - no reduction in level - no cooldown - no level gate for permanent AC choice - everything is unaffected - armor/earpieces/weapons for character and companions are removed and must be reequipped.


Option 11

No AC change allowed.



And this is the pro and con list as it stands right now. It is certainly open for more additions or corrections.


PROS

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.
2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.
3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.
4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

CONS

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.
2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.
3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.
4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.
5) This will likely further demean AC choice.
6) Could cause FOTM issues.
7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.


I am willing to begrudgingly support option 1, option 7 but would prefer option 11. The idea of option 7 has some appeal...you have to level an AC to max level to get a legacy unlock you can use to switch to that AC inside the class for another character account wide. That still give AC meaning IMO.

I still prefer no AC change, but I'm somewhat willing to support 1 and 7. I personally do not feel option 10 is a good idea as I think it would possibly have a negative impact on the game, more likely than an early change.

I would also add what I would like to see happen with respect to AC.

1) Bioware would come out and publicly state, in no uncertain terms, that AC IS YOUR CLASS.

2) Make AC choice mandatory at level 10, move all abilities under the AC heading in the abilities pane and remove the base class header, move all trainable abilities from that point forward under the AC header on the trainer.

3) Remove all references in the game to your base class that can be removed once you choose your AC.

4) Add a small quest line at max level that is AC specific, where they refer to your AC directly.

IMO this would make the choice more meaningful.

I do think, however, that Dual Spec would be fine.

Dual spec - Allowed when you choose your spec onward, but open use is only allowed after you conclude your class story.

Before your story conclusion dual spec would be restricted to use inside heroics, flashpoints, operations and warzones UNLESS the groupfinder tool allows you a free spec swap while qued to fill missing roles. It would be a permanent unlock feature, allowing you to save a particular setup...it saves point allocation and bar locations of specials but not gear setup. it would have a one hour cooldown, and would cost either EC or CC.

After conclusion of your storyline you are unlocked to spec swap any time you wish.

This does not remove the cost of respecing...only saves the spec loadouts, positions of abilities on action bars, etc....you can still choose to forgo the dual spec route and manually redeploy your points and abilities.

Please let me know if the new option 10 is accurate as folks have requested it. If not I will adjust it accordingly.

The problem is why would anyone want to play the exact same story twice? Nothing changes between the advanced classes, you don't get any different conversation choices or dialog. That's boring. It's bad enough that the game pretty much reacts the same to you on the generic quests regardless of what class you are, making just playing an entirely different class less fun once you've already been through the game.

Do you feel the same way about Field respecs? Players aren't all idiots. They can learn their new skillz in a few hours. This game isn't nearly as difficult as you make it sound, especially when we're talking about a simple swap of ACs. While they may play slightly different, they share a tree and have all class skills in common.

Not everyone who dislikes their class or wants a change, wants to reroll an alt. If you do, please do so...you have that choice as it is. But I don't understand how you could possibly be opposed to someone else switching THEIR AC when it has zero impact on YOU...are you really that worried about things that don't have any impact on you?

If I could comment, I don't think it's fair to say that allowing AC change would have no impact on someone. I think it's more fair to say that one individuals choice in AC does not directly impact another player.

I might argue against that a bit in some situations, but overall I think it's a fair contention. What someone else does with respect to changing AC does not effect me.

However, the existence of AC change WOULD affect me, only in the way that it would further demean the choice of AC to me that already feels pretty meaningless as it is.

Now, that is my problem....not anyone else's problem, which is why I would not deny AC change to the masses if it was so desired.

However...having an AC change allowance early after the choice of the initial AC would probably not impact the meaning of AC choice to me. I can't speak for others.

I agree with you that a SINGLE player's choice of class (AC) has a miniscule chance of affecting another specific player directly, as would a SINGLE person's changing their class. The problem with allowing class changes is you aren't talking about a SINGLE person, you are talking about allowing everyone to change their class. Even though I know some will not choose to change their class, the option will be available for everyone to use.

If half the game's population changes their class, that means that half the people a player meets will likely be playing a class they did not level and may not know how to play. Imagine if two, or even one, of the other three people you get in your LFG changed their class and had all new skills they had no idea how to use and were used to using skills they no longer had.

This is the problem TUXs and others want to declare a non-issue because we have some players now who change specs. They seem to forget that a player changing specs has a basic knowledge of the class and the majority of the class skills. A commando will likely be familiar with the commando's healing spells, with the exception of talent tree specific skills. That same commando will likely have no idea about the vanguard's taunts, or mitigation skills.


Allowing class changes up to about level 15 would give most players a chance to determine if the basic play style and combat style of a given class suits them, or if they might like to try the other class. I would be more accepting of allowing class changes prior to up to level 15 than I would at max level. This idea, I fear, will not meet with approval from many of those desiring class changes since it will eliminate the possibility of leveling easy mode (as a marauder smash monkey, for example) and changing to the desired class (juggernaut, for tanking) at end game. It will also eliminate the possibility of changing class if a player's current class gets nerfed.