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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

Lyshar's Avatar


Lyshar
08.05.2013 , 10:42 PM | #3031
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Your entire argument against it boils down to "someone may not know how to play their new advanced class"? This isn't rocket surgery...it's a video game.

Dude, that happens every DAY as it is. Good players will still be good, bad players will still be bad. It'll take 2-days tops for semi-decent players to be semi-decent players again. This is no different than people playing on alts or swapping skill trees as it is.

I find it silly that you'd /ignore someone for swapping ACs...I think that's very petty...but I support your desire to do so. I happen to believe that the players who would do this will be the players who will excel in their class, no matter which AC they select. They'll have a renewed interest in the game and they'll be anxious to get their new gear and play their new AC. I'd group with that type of player any day over someone who thinks it's any of their business what I do.
You may be able to handle it, but a lot will not. Your argument is "Bad players will be bad, good players will manage"... Try to look at the "normal" players that may be persuaded by impulse offers to change their AC influenced by random people arguing one AC is better than the other in general chat. And I think that's still looking at it too simply, there are more than 3 groups of players and you're just looking at the top and bottom few percentages.

I will not mindlessly ignore people. The first one I would inquire about why they changed and why they thought it would be exactly the same... especially because the first is most likely going to be a sorcerer going assassin and NOT checking if everything is in order... quite likely joining the queue as tank as well.

I do expect there will be a fair share of unprepared people, not saying it has to be a majority. But in the utmost likelihood enough to cause a lot of frustration with groups falling apart. And after a week of facing these, yeah I'll start to become less tolerant and kick/ignore frequently... after all it's a game like you say and I want to enjoy myself, not get frustrated at armies of people that were not anticipated when an AC change is implemented.

You and others still fail to answer a few simple questions, most importantly "What if you have to have had a level 50 or 55 of your target advanced class or it's opposing faction counterpart before you are allowed a class change?". That means that before you can turn a sorcerer into an assassin you would need to have had an assassin OR Shadow of the appropriate level at some point.

If you can't even say what you think of that then I think I'll just assume you already have no idea about the advanced class and just want a shortcut. Where the veteran players that claim they understand it fast enough would probably already have met that requirement.

People also seem reluctant to supply ideas for what should happen with the gear people have/need, but even more so with the skills that you'd simply lose and the ones that need to be acquired to replace them.

Since you can't offer constructive ways to make a possible transition to AC changes viable then every pro-AC-change post just makes me more anti-AC-change. Your answer to concerns is that they are unfounded, period. And when that is the standpoint then I hope BW will NEVER allow AC change. I shouldn't have to ask the questions, you should answer them on your own to persuade the devs to give you what you want.

But then the dev's and moderators probably ignore this thread that constantly derails to mindless "What's and (Advanced) Class?" argument. Not the best way to win.

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
08.05.2013 , 10:58 PM | #3032
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I have both and play Assault for both in PvP. They play similar enough that swapping from one to the other is minimal at best. I have a harder time switching to Gunnery to PvP with than I do swapping characters.
If this is true then why do you need to switch.
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."

MajikMyst's Avatar


MajikMyst
08.05.2013 , 11:02 PM | #3033
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
And it's their game, they can change it if they want. You, like so many others in this thread, are engaging in "It's always been like this so it cannot be changed" thinking.
They won't.. Bioware has repeatedly said they do not want a single class to both tank and heal.. Allowing class swapping would violate that rule.. The game is emphatically clear on where Bioware sits on this issue.. It says on at least 4 different occasions, that your choice is permanent..

I fail to see why people keep ignoring this issue.. It really is all you need to understand and come to terms with..

Bioware has made their intentions on this issue perfectly clear.. All you have to do is listen..
Who is the more foolish? The fool or the fool that follows him?

[.] Lost but never forgotten!! 12-01-2011 R.I.P.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
08.06.2013 , 08:03 AM | #3034
Quote: Originally Posted by Soluss View Post
If this is true then why do you need to switch.
I wanted a 2nd toon for Ops.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
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branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
08.06.2013 , 08:26 AM | #3035
Quote: Originally Posted by astrobearx View Post
off topic:

actually murder or killing another human being in some cultures arent unlawful.in fact, some cultures actually require the person who has broken a serious law to be punish by death. of course, most of these cultures are primitive or have died out but there are some areas around the world today that sanction murder in the right condition.
Murder is, by definition, the unlawful killing of a human being. Not all killings are murder, or unlawful.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
08.06.2013 , 08:59 AM | #3036
I've grown so tired of the fallacies that are presented from both sides...opinions offered as facts, statements taken as bible while others are dismissed, taking the state of the game today as the state forever, or taking what they considered once as a sign they are open to the idea for all time.

I am not against any of these things presented as opinions...they can certainly serve as observations, but when presented as facts or the "last word" it just seems to me like folks trying to iceskate uphill.

Repeating the same fallacies over and over does not lend credibility to an argument, especially when suppositions are presented as facts.

TUXs's Avatar


TUXs
08.06.2013 , 09:02 AM | #3037
Quote: Originally Posted by Lyshar View Post
YYou and others still fail to answer a few simple questions, most importantly "What if you have to have had a level 50 or 55 of your target advanced class or it's opposing faction counterpart before you are allowed a class change?". That means that before you can turn a sorcerer into an assassin you would need to have had an assassin OR Shadow of the appropriate level at some point.
Silly idea. People can tell, without having multiple 55's, if they like/dislike an AC.
Quote: Originally Posted by Lyshar View Post
If you can't even say what you think of that then I think I'll just assume you already have no idea about the advanced class and just want a shortcut. Where the veteran players that claim they understand it fast enough would probably already have met that requirement.
I did answer it...you can't ask it and comment how I haven't answered it in the same reply. And no, I don't see this as a "shortcut" - it's offering players a choice. It's an alternative to rolling a new toon. It's not a "shortcut" because they've already done the work...this doesn't duplicate a toon for them, it simply allows them to change the one they have to something they may prefer more.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lyshar View Post
People also seem reluctant to supply ideas for what should happen with the gear people have/need, but even more so with the skills that you'd simply lose and the ones that need to be acquired to replace them.
Gear should unequip. Gear would need to be replaced. Players better make damn sure they want to do this before they do it. It would be an economic boon to crafters and a great credit sink. All skills from the dropped AC would be "untrained" and they'd need to train at a Hutt or trainer like anyone else would.

Quote: Originally Posted by Lyshar View Post
Since you can't offer constructive ways to make a possible transition to AC changes viable then every pro-AC-change post just makes me more anti-AC-change. Your answer to concerns is that they are unfounded, period. And when that is the standpoint then I hope BW will NEVER allow AC change. I shouldn't have to ask the questions, you should answer them on your own to persuade the devs to give you what you want.
What concerns? What concerns have I NOT addressed?
The one about people not knowing how to play their new AC? I can't prevent people from being worry warts dude - that's a none issue...it's one none of us can solve no matter what AC someone is. Being a part of an MMO means you'll always encounter players who need help. Deal with it.

If you have other concerns, list em and I'll be happy to reply.
All warfare is based on deception If his forces are united, separate them If you are far from the enemy, make him believe you are near A leader leads by example not by force
My referral code: here What you get: here (1 FREE transfer 7-day FREE sub FREE Jumpstart and Preferred Bundles)

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
08.06.2013 , 03:35 PM | #3038
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Silly idea. People can tell, without having multiple 55's, if they like/dislike an AC.
If a person hasn't leveled a particular class, how do they know whether or no they will like it?

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I did answer it...you can't ask it and comment how I haven't answered it in the same reply. And no, I don't see this as a "shortcut" - it's offering players a choice. It's an alternative to rolling a new toon. It's not a "shortcut" because they've already done the work...this doesn't duplicate a toon for them, it simply allows them to change the one they have to something they may prefer more.
If a person levels a sorcerer to max level, did they "do the work" to have a max level assassin? No, they did not. They did the work to have a max level sorcerer. It IS a shortcut to "do the work" required to have a max level marauder and end up with a max level juggernaut.

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Gear should unequip. Gear would need to be replaced. Players better make damn sure they want to do this before they do it. It would be an economic boon to crafters and a great credit sink. All skills from the dropped AC would be "untrained" and they'd need to train at a Hutt or trainer like anyone else would.
Do you mean like players better make darn sure they are choosing the class they want when they choose their AC? Do you mean like players better be certain they are choosing the class they want when they click those confirmation boxes that ask if the player is certain he is choosing the AC he wants and also advise the player the choice is PERMANENT.

Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
What concerns? What concerns have I NOT addressed?
The one about people not knowing how to play their new AC? I can't prevent people from being worry warts dude - that's a none issue...it's one none of us can solve no matter what AC someone is. Being a part of an MMO means you'll always encounter players who need help. Deal with it.

If you have other concerns, list em and I'll be happy to reply.
Yes, there are always players who "need help", but allowing class changes will increase the numbers of players who "need help". You can talk about changing specs, if you want. The difference is that player who levels their sorcerer as a DPS and then switches to heals probably used their heal spells as they were leveling, if only to heal themselves. That same player has NO experience in using an assassin's taunts, as their sorcerer has NO taunts.

The opposite would also be true. The player who levels an assassin as a DPS probably used their taunts as they were leveling, but would have NO knowledge of healing since the assassin has NO heal spells.

shadowrouge's Avatar


shadowrouge
08.06.2013 , 04:15 PM | #3039
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Gear should unequip. Gear would need to be replaced. Players better make damn sure they want to do this before they do it. It would be an economic boon to crafters and a great credit sink. All skills from the dropped AC would be "untrained" and they'd need to train at a Hutt or trainer like anyone else would.
And people complaining for the AC switching would not be the end. Once they discover ( why they would think otherwise I cant say but they will) that it cost them money to retrain and regear the crys will go up to change this as well. the comment's would be something like this I would imagine.

" But I already payed for all the skills in my AC before I switched. I shouldn't have to pay for them again its unfair."

" I had all the gear I needed on my old AC. Why can't it just change over so I don't have to regrind out my stuff?"

Say what you want but you know as well as I do this will happen.
Weekend Beta tester 11-11-11/ Thanksgiving tester 11-25-11
http://www.swtor.com/r/XydG2G

Soluss's Avatar


Soluss
08.06.2013 , 04:31 PM | #3040
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
I wanted a 2nd toon for Ops.
You cant use the 1st toon why?
James Ohlen: " For 2012 we really want players to feel like they're getting their money's worth. You're going to see so many changes and additions to the Star Wars Universe. It's going to be impressive. We have our Update 1.2 coming in the next week and then after that it's going to continue to roll out month after month. It's exciting."