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Sentinels - Top 3 Questions

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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.03.2013 , 10:37 AM | #1
First off, please accept my apologies for being a day late on this post. I was traveling this entire week, and the final deadline conflicted unfortunately with a certain airplane. :-( In any case, here we are!

PvP

Watchman/Annihilation currently suffers from a very long ramp-up time and is severely punished for any downtime due to the Merciless/Annihilate stacking buff. This ramp-up makes the spec nearly unconscionable in competitive PvP, and the downtime penalties cause severe issues in both PvP and certain PvE encounters (such as Titan 6 or Dread Guard). Would it be possible to improve the ramp-up and downtime penalties in this area? Perhaps by talenting Valorous Call/Frenzy to build Merciless/Annihilate stacks. Another idea would be to decrement Merciless/Annihilate stacks upon expiry rather than removing them entirely.

PvE

While Focus/Rage has excellent AoE DPS and on-demand burst, it falls significantly behind in terms of single-target DPS. In fact, dummy parses in the hands of skilled and geared players show a roughly 9% disparity between Focus/Rage and the other two specs on a single-target fight. This represents an unacceptable liability for most serious progression groups, as the majority of DPS pressure in current content comes in the form of hard enrage timers in single-target encounters. Despite this, the community is concerned that an increase to single-target DPS might make Focus/Rage the "go to" spec for sentinels/marauders. What are the design goals for Focus/Rage in PvE? Is the spec currently meeting those goals? If low single-target DPS is indeed the balancing factor for this spec, how is this justified with the current PvE design focus on single-target bosses?

All

Centering/Fury does not build for the duration of Zen/Berserk, Inspiration/Bloodthirst or Transcendence/Predation. This is a somewhat odd design decision since sentinels/marauders are penalized significantly when these raid buffs are used. This is a noticeable DPS loss for Watchman/Annihilation and Combat/Carnage, but it is absolutely devastating for Focus/Rage as their rotation is actually dependent on consistently building Centering/Fury (due to the Singularity/Shockwave mechanic). As such, most Focus/Rage sentinels/marauders actually click off the Inspiration/Bloodthirst buff when another sentinel/marauder provides it. No other DPS class is handicapped in this fashion. What is the design rationale for suppressing Centering/Fury build up during these buffs? Could this restriction be removed (especially when *another* sentinel/marauder has supplied the raid buff)?
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
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KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.03.2013 , 10:37 AM | #2
Reserved
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

varietasplus's Avatar


varietasplus
08.04.2013 , 02:53 AM | #3
Why would you want to play as Watchmen in PVP? Every saber form speaks for themselves what those are best at, we do not need three skill trees that are equivalent in PVE/PVP and single target/AOE. It is more interresting that you switch forms during operations to pick that suits the bossfight and/or group composition best. What I would appreciate though if I could save my skill tree and skill bar settings so that I can switch quickly. The current solution is simply wasting the players' time for no reason.

I agree on the weak points of Watchmen in PVE, already suggested the reducing stacks of Merciless months ago. BTW, it is funny to call a slash Merciless whereas a Jedi should always be merciful...

At first glance, the Inspiration issue is valid, but then again, it is all about timing your skills properly and co-ordinate with the other sentinel(s).

As for increasing Focus single target DPS, I disagree. 10% is nothing if you think of the extreme AOE damage. Most bossfights include a lot of adds and the more DPS you have with good AOE damage, the sooner those go down, the less healing is needed and the sooner every DPS can turn back to the boss again. On the contrary, my problem is that for most bossfights it is best to go for the Focus spec already, I am bored of it, but it is more efficient than the elegant and exciting Watchmen that provides the group with healing and puts damage reduction on the boss. I would make the difference even more significant, Focus needs more AOE at the cost of single target, Combat needs more single target DPS, Watchmen needs more raidwide benefit so that I am forced to pick whichever is needed most.

AngusFTW's Avatar


AngusFTW
08.04.2013 , 03:52 AM | #4
The reason focus is so op in pvp right now is BECAUSE they have already buffed the single target dmg for pve, a aoe spec shouldn't ever be on par with a single target dmg spec for single target dmg because that would make it overpowered..
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TheCourier-'s Avatar


TheCourier-
08.04.2013 , 04:06 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by AngusFTW View Post
The reason focus is so op in pvp right now is BECAUSE they have already buffed the single target dmg for pve, a aoe spec shouldn't ever be on par with a single target dmg spec for single target dmg because that would make it overpowered..
Rage spec is not overpowered. Most teams on Pot5 only run 1-2 rage spec for ranked. Rage spec destroys some teams in non-ranked WZs, but 1 marksman sniper can shut out a rage spec player easily.
Multiple characters on Pot5

TheCourier-'s Avatar


TheCourier-
08.04.2013 , 04:11 AM | #6
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
Why would you want to play as Watchmen in PVP? Every saber form speaks for themselves what those are best at, we do not need three skill trees that are equivalent in PVE/PVP and single target/AOE. It is more interresting that you switch forms during operations to pick that suits the bossfight and/or group composition best. What I would appreciate though if I could save my skill tree and skill bar settings so that I can switch quickly. The current solution is simply wasting the players' time for no reason.
Watchman spec used to be outstanding at PVP. Bioware nerfing watchman spec was a mistake that they made.
Multiple characters on Pot5

Whiteprince's Avatar


Whiteprince
08.04.2013 , 04:11 AM | #7
Why don't just make dots aoe? Thats working pretty well for Slingers/Snipers.
Beacause I don't really see the reason of having single target dot's.

About Merciless, what if remove those stacks, and mike it like..."If u hit doted target, u make X more damgae"

Lets say, when target has only 1 dot - you hit 10% harder, when target has 2 dots (aoe + Cauterize) u make 20% more damage.
You can say I'm dreamer, but I'm not the only one...

I'gor, Guild Master of MVPs

KeyboardNinja's Avatar


KeyboardNinja
08.04.2013 , 12:16 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
At first glance, the Inspiration issue is valid, but then again, it is all about timing your skills properly and co-ordinate with the other sentinel(s).
Clearly you don't play Focus in PvE. No amount of timing fixes the fact that your rotation is essentially suspended and resource starved for fifteen seconds. Pre-2.0, this problem was addressed by building stacks using Stasis. Now, that really isn't an option, and so you basically lose an entire Force Sweep cycle, which is a massive DPS loss.

Quote: Originally Posted by varietasplus View Post
As for increasing Focus single target DPS, I disagree. 10% is nothing if you think of the extreme AOE damage. Most bossfights include a lot of adds and the more DPS you have with good AOE damage, the sooner those go down, the less healing is needed and the sooner every DPS can turn back to the boss again. On the contrary, my problem is that for most bossfights it is best to go for the Focus spec already, I am bored of it, but it is more efficient than the elegant and exciting Watchmen that provides the group with healing and puts damage reduction on the boss. I would make the difference even more significant, Focus needs more AOE at the cost of single target, Combat needs more single target DPS, Watchmen needs more raidwide benefit so that I am forced to pick whichever is needed most.
What "extreme AoE damage"? I can think of one boss with consistent AoE (Dash'roode) and two bosses where large add packs play an important role (Writhing Horror and Titan 6). Even counting all three as fights where Focus excels, that's still the extreme minority of PvE encounters.

10% is a lot of damage. 10% is worth selling your soul for in certain fights (eg TfB NiM).
Computer Programmer. Theory Crafter. Dragonslayer on The Ebon Hawk.
Tam (shadow tank) Tov-ren (commando healer) Aveo (combat sentinel) Nimri (df scoundrel)
Averith (hybrid sniper) Alish (lightning sorcerer) Aresham (jugg tank) Effek (ap powertech)

Rahizm's Avatar


Rahizm
08.04.2013 , 12:41 PM | #9
Well, here's my questions:

1. Merciless needs to be up full time, but with some of your current boss lineups it's a problem and gimps DPS, since Watchman do more damage when reaching a full Merciless stack. Not that I have a hard time keeping it up, there's a large amount of players who do suffer from this. Will there be a change to this in the future? My own suggestion is to drop the CD to 6 seconds (like a full stack of Merciless), giving Merciless a small damage boost to the next Merciless cast in the next 7 seconds or something.

2. Any possible tanking builds for a Sentinel? :P DPS waiting queues are annoying, gunslingers and sentinels have no choice but to wait for an unknown amount of time (it's why I don't even queue for flashpoints anymore and raid with the guild at set times). I mean, two lightsabers can deflect stuff too right? :P (being creative, Kreia could control lightsabers in KOTOR, maybe an example..? :P)

3. The beloved Gunslinger class currently has a mainstat boosting talent, which is of course not present on a Sentinel. Can we ever expect this talent?

JediMasterSLC's Avatar


JediMasterSLC
08.04.2013 , 03:16 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by TheCourier- View Post
Rage spec is not overpowered. Most teams on Pot5 only run 1-2 rage spec for ranked. Rage spec destroys some teams in non-ranked WZs, but 1 marksman sniper can shut out a rage spec player easily.
Lets be fair here: there are 14 DPS specs in the game- 18 if you count the right trees as two specs. The fact that 1 of those specs is represented with 1 or 2 players in almost every ranked comp probably suggests that it's a little OP.
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