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The REAL Most Powerful Sith


Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.03.2013 , 07:34 AM | #661
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
5. Exar Kun
6. Darth Krayt
7. Darth Vader

Which would be my change, this is what I propose we debate.
I'd like to get this debate back on track by focusing on this issue.

Concerning Krayt vs Vader, I came across a very good comparison on ComicVine supporting Vader over Krayt, its all a little disjointed and with some scans thrown in there so I'll just provide the link:

http://www.comicvine.com/profile/b_t...h-krayt/68229/ - pg 2

I think what is most poignant is that Karness Muur regards Vader as very powerful and worthy of the talisman, whereas he regards Krayt's powers as moot. Even when bolstered post-resurrection I don't think Krayt matches Vader.

There is definitely an argument to be had concerning Exar Kun vs Vader however.

S_W_LeGenD's Avatar


S_W_LeGenD
08.03.2013 , 07:41 AM | #662
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
But you just said its the case, just there, in bold, right there. If I were to hazard a guess I'd say Marr is the strongest, but unfortunately we lack the information to say if he stronger than x, y and z.
My guess is the same; Marr being the strongest among the known ones. SWTORE sourcebook makes a good case for him.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
So we have no choice but to exclude the entire Dark Council altogether until more information comes to light.
Since this is your thread; your call...

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
The Hero of Tython was most likely aided by the spirit of Orgus Din, who helped him overcome the Emperor's dark side influence a short while before. This is the only explanation for the assertion that is made in the Chapter that for some reason only the HoT can resist the Emperor's mind control.
You are correct about Din assisting HoT in developing some level of resistance against the telepathic abilities of Sith Emperor (Vitiate). However, Din's assistance to HoT have not been implied during HoT's second encounter with Sith Emperor (Vitiate); HoT certainly had help from his droid in this encounter, as per revelation from the game. It might be a "strike team" of some sorts but I am not sure about how this fight will be perceived in future content.

Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
And your 'vary' theory is simply more powerful Force users being able to survive nexuses, while lesser Force users are weaker. Yet Yoda is certainly not a lacking Force user. Indicating that even the most powerful of Force users would be effected by the dark side nexus.
Every individual have distinguishing strengths and weaknesses; Meetra didn't experience negative effects on the same level on Dromund Kaas as some Jedi in the future did when they visited this world.

Their is another decent example: Malachor V didn't break Revan but it negatively influenced and/or corrupted many others.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
08.03.2013 , 09:11 AM | #663
Exar Kun vs. Vader. I see them to be very close. I think it depends on what you appreciate more: esoteric or basic mastery.
Added Chapters 39 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus

marcelo_sdk's Avatar


marcelo_sdk
08.03.2013 , 09:56 PM | #664
Personally, the only thing on this list that should be corrected is Traya, but she's so much worshipped on this forum, that I'll not even lost my time trying to argue against her.

I'm not critiscizing anyone, guys, my opinion is not better or "more" right than yours, I'm just stating what I feel, it's hard to argue against Traya here, sometimes I think people exaggerate about her. She doesn't need to be a elite top-tier character in terms of power to be one of the best characters of EU, which she cerainly is.
THE SHEPARD LEGACY

Master Goldrinn Shepard [Human Jedi Guardian] | Darth Saeros [Cyborg Sith Jugg.]
Erendis Barsen'thor [Human Jedi Shadow] | Darth Kamul [Zabrak Sith Assassin]

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
08.04.2013 , 02:54 AM | #665
Quote: Originally Posted by Aurbere View Post
Exar Kun vs. Vader. I see them to be very close. I think it depends on what you appreciate more: esoteric or basic mastery.
Yep, and as always I am a guy that appreciates basic mastery, lets put it this way when talking about a martial arts if you go on and learn the more advanced forms and try to fight a guy who has mastered the basics, the guy who has mastered the basics will kick you to the curb, sure you know some fancy stuff but the guy with the basics is practiced and a much truer master just my 2 cents

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.04.2013 , 04:21 AM | #666
Quote: Originally Posted by marcelo_sdk View Post
Personally, the only thing on this list that should be corrected is Traya, but she's so much worshipped on this forum, that I'll not even lost my time trying to argue against her.

I'm not critiscizing anyone, guys, my opinion is not better or "more" right than yours, I'm just stating what I feel, it's hard to argue against Traya here, sometimes I think people exaggerate about her. She doesn't need to be a elite top-tier character in terms of power to be one of the best characters of EU, which she cerainly is.
That's not very fair on the rest of the community to call us biased and 'worshippers' when you haven't actually made any attempt to reason your position. Don't expect anyone to agree with you on that alone.

But I did a basic comparison on the BattleZone thread:

===============================

Traya was a master of Force healing, able to bring herself and others from the brink of. Bane on the other hand was susceptible to poison and on two occasions required medical attention to heal himself.

Traya had highly attuned senses, foregoing the use of her eyesight to see through the Force and being able to sense beings, even droids, from considerable distances away. Her skills in foresight where also exceptional, able to see across centuries into the future. Bane has never shown anything other than above-average sense abilities.

Traya was able to drain the life force of three powerful Jedi Masters simultaneously. Whereas Bane required a dark side nexus create a Force draining field around him - which would otherwise have exhausted him.


===============================

I expect people say Bane because he's fried people with lightning and brought down buildings, but we have to remember that we can only compare feats that both parties share. And unfortunately being a purely in-game character Traya has not been able to show her proficiency in these talents.

That said, we could note that despite being severed from the Force Traya was still able to lift and manipulate a trio of lightsabers - which IMO is quite an impressive display of telekinesis.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
08.04.2013 , 04:23 AM | #667
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
Yep, and as always I am a guy that appreciates basic mastery, lets put it this way when talking about a martial arts if you go on and learn the more advanced forms and try to fight a guy who has mastered the basics, the guy who has mastered the basics will kick you to the curb, sure you know some fancy stuff but the guy with the basics is practiced and a much truer master just my 2 cents
As a martial artist since the age of three, that couldn't be more wrong, when a master of Muay Boran came across a master of the much more basic Kung Fu, the Kung Fu master got dismantled easily, why? he'd never seen it before, he'd seen Karate, Muay Thai itself, he had seen Akido and taikwondo, all the others, but he'd never seen this, the Kung Fu master couldnt defend himself because the Muay Boran practitioner was too unpredictable.

That would perfectly fit the bill here with Exar Kun.

Exar Kun mastered Alchemy, Sorcery and many basic force techniques and once he'd absorbed the Massassi, he'd just gained the power of half a million Dark Side creatures, who the hell knows how much more powerful he was after that, but when he realised the Jedi plan, he cheated death instead and used Essence Transfer, without ever hearing of it, to transcend into something between an essence and a spirit.
"The Dark Jedi are in many ways more dangerous than the Sith."
Republic Justice

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
08.04.2013 , 04:26 AM | #668
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post

That said, we could note that despite being severed from the Force Traya was still able to lift and manipulate a trio of lightsabers - which IMO is quite an impressive display of telekinesis.

As well as I and trust me I am no fan of traya, I question a lot of her capabilities since we have to assume a lot of them I was the same way with Revan and the Exile before their inclusion in the Revan novel, kind of a philosophy thing to "question everything" games are hard to judge that way unfortunately even video can be hard to decipher every movement made as a "picture is worth a thousand words" getting the right words can be difficult .

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
08.04.2013 , 04:31 AM | #669
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
As a martial artist since the age of three, that couldn't be more wrong, when a master of Muay Boran came across a master of the much more basic Kung Fu, the Kung Fu master got dismantled easily, why? he'd never seen it before, he'd seen Karate, Muay Thai itself, he had seen Akido and taikwondo, all the others, but he'd never seen this, the Kung Fu master couldnt defend himself because the Muay Boran practitioner was too unpredictable.

That would perfectly fit the bill here with Exar Kun.

Exar Kun mastered Alchemy, Sorcery and many basic force techniques and once he'd absorbed the Massassi, he'd just gained the power of half a million Dark Side creatures, who the hell knows how much more powerful he was after that, but when he realised the Jedi plan, he cheated death instead and used Essence Transfer, without ever hearing of it, to transcend into something between an essence and a spirit.
but that wasn't what I was talking about here both have taken to training the same martial art, "The Force" but Vader has taken to refine the basics of "The force" while Kun has moved ahead to more advanced techniques with out refining the basics of the martial art.


This would be like a Kung Fu student that has practiced and drilled the basics fully to the point of mastery vs a Kung Fu student who was impatient and moved into more advanced movements of Kung Fu before mastering the basics. The example you gave is not what I was talking about.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
08.04.2013 , 04:35 AM | #670
But surely in mastering the advanced aspects of the Force, Exar Kun has proven is mastery over the basic aspects?