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Official Scoundrel community questions 8/30

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Official Scoundrel community questions 8/30
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oaceen's Avatar


oaceen
07.30.2013 , 11:28 AM | #11
Quote: Originally Posted by dipstik View Post
the biggest problem is that pvpers want mroe survivability, but the scrapper tree already has too many worthless points for survivability. get rid of defense, endurance points and add something to help with dots/energy/damage.
i remember you bringing this up before, and i think any survivability talents should be tied into any existing talents

for example, fight or flight or slippery devil sound aptly named for a talent that reduces inc AOE damage
oaceen assault specialist / oac scrapper / oacao kinetic combatant / oacianado tactician
[Guide] The Dirty Rotten Scoundrel's PvE DPS Compendium

Master_Control's Avatar


Master_Control
07.30.2013 , 04:04 PM | #12
In relation to being able to use shoot first out of steath, i think it would work well as an execute instead? as for energy managment, i would like to see the turn the tables apply to any crit, not just when flying fists procs.

Yestreen's Avatar


Yestreen
07.30.2013 , 04:37 PM | #13
Quote: Originally Posted by SandsS View Post
...
First off, both Morde and Marshmallow are in the same guild so they bounced ideas off each other.

Second, these ARE the main issues with ops/scoundrels and these are the most constructive suggestions anyone has posted.

Therefore so it would make sense that they would post something similar.

Finally, the class reps are meant to collaborate, so you should be happy they are posting similar things and have similar views. Instead of flaming your class rep, why don't you do something more constructive. If you want to flame the PVP forum is ------> that way.
Wurdlol
<Hey im mvp>
www.twitch.tv/wurdlolswtor

Yestreen's Avatar


Yestreen
07.30.2013 , 05:03 PM | #14
I posted the following in the operative thread and felt it appropriate to post the same here. Excuse the operative terminology but I think you guys get the general idea:

I think both you and Marshmallow nailed the issues/concerns and also posted very reasonable and viable suggestions.

I rolled an operative specifically to play concealment and it makes me sad that it is not a competitive pvp spec. I believe the 3 things that can make the spec good in ranked pvp are:

1) Hidden Strike Proc out of stealth
Change calculated frenzy with a new 3 park skill point that reads: When you deal damage with Shiv or Lacerate you have a 15%/30%/45% to activate Calculated Frenzy (or another name), which makes your Hidden Strike usable out of Stealth and cost 0 energy. Jarring Strike will not apply with Hidden Strike is used with Calculated Frenzy. This ability can only occur once every 18 seconds. Each rank beyond the first reduces this rate limit by 3 seconds.

2) Add an 8 second temporary vanish
Change Culling to a one point Skill, and replace Revitalizers with this one point skill:
Supercharged Stealth
Supercharges your Stealth Belt to immediately place you in Supercharged Stealth for 8 seconds. Supercharged Stealth does not break when you take damage. Supercharged Stealth does not remove you from combat, but allows the use of Hidden Strike. After the 8 seconds expire you are removed from Stealth. 45 second cooldown.

3) A Healing Debuff
Add to the Acid Blade Skill: Additionally Targets affected by your Acid Blade receive 30% less healing.

Miscellaneous Notes
A more widespread use of healing will inherently nerf Operative healing and lead to more deaths in Warzones, both of which are needed.

Shield Probe is a joke of a 45 second cooldown.

Explosive Probe has a niche role in operative DPS, but is slightly awkward because of its high energy cost and cover requirement. I think allowing the use of explosive probe during stealth is not an outrageous suggestion but I may be wrong.
Wurdlol
<Hey im mvp>
www.twitch.tv/wurdlolswtor

Gren-Aluren's Avatar


Gren-Aluren
07.30.2013 , 07:04 PM | #15
My questions are:

Why doesn't Scoundrel Scrapper tree have some form of a finisher ability? I know the balance is that the class can heal itself but it does so poorly unlike Sages who can insta-heal themselves in DPS spec and Vanguards who can regenerate health when below 30% HP.

Are Shadow DPS specs not meant to be a neutral or soft counter to Scoundrel? Why does Shadow DPS have such a huge advantage over Scoundrel DPS when this class and stealth in general already have many hard-counters?

Isn't Electro-Net kinda too harsh against the Scoundrel class? It heavily counters this class way more then any other class, even Shadows can shrug it off easily since they don't rely only on mobility for survival and have defensive counters against tech classes. Taking away a Scoundrel's ability to exit combat and it's mobility for 9 seconds is the most extreme counter I've ever seen on any individual class in any game I've ever played.

Since the rebalance of 2.0, the class is too easily shut down without a much needed improvement to it's defensive cooldowns (specifically against AoE.) This class isn't suitable for anything other then small group open world PvP since it cannot perform it's role in large group oriented situations and combat.


To people here:


Anyone suggesting the ability to use Shoot First out of stealth is out of their mind. This class is more then capable of dealing great sustained damage, the issue is you can't live long enough to deal it when in groups of larger then four players because of the piss poor up time of it's defensive cooldowns; It's extremely vulnerable to burst AoE. Defensive Screen is an absolute joke because it only absorbs a few thousand damage before it's gone while other classes get some form of mitigation for the full duration. Play this class in Open world you'll rock anyone that isn't a stealth class. This class is insane in small group PvP simply because of the damage paired with it's awesome mobility and utility.

Only time this class lacks on the damage is when using the Scrapper tree on targets below 30% health (Which is mainly PvE.) Scrapper can use some form of an execute. Perhaps an auto-crit to Back Blast on targets below 30% health.

Yestreen's Avatar


Yestreen
07.30.2013 , 08:43 PM | #16
Quote: Originally Posted by Gren-Aluren View Post
My questions are:

Why doesn't Scoundrel Scrapper tree have some form of a finisher ability? I know the balance is that the class can heal itself but it does so poorly unlike Sages who can insta-heal themselves in DPS spec and Vanguards who can regenerate health when below 30% HP.

Are Shadow DPS specs not meant to be a neutral or soft counter to Scoundrel? Why does Shadow DPS have such a huge advantage over Scoundrel DPS when this class and stealth in general already have many hard-counters?

Isn't Electro-Net kinda too harsh against the Scoundrel class? It heavily counters this class way more then any other class, even Shadows can shrug it off easily since they don't rely only on mobility for survival and have defensive counters against tech classes. Taking away a Scoundrel's ability to exit combat and it's mobility for 9 seconds is the most extreme counter I've ever seen on any individual class in any game I've ever played.

Since the rebalance of 2.0, the class is too easily shut down without a much needed improvement to it's defensive cooldowns (specifically against AoE.) This class isn't suitable for anything other then small group open world PvP since it cannot perform it's role in large group oriented situations and combat.


To people here:


Anyone suggesting the ability to use Shoot First out of stealth is out of their mind. This class is more then capable of dealing great sustained damage, the issue is you can't live long enough to deal it when in groups of larger then four players because of the piss poor up time of it's defensive cooldowns; It's extremely vulnerable to burst AoE. Defensive Screen is an absolute joke because it only absorbs a few thousand damage before it's gone while other classes get some form of mitigation for the full duration. Play this class in Open world you'll rock anyone that isn't a stealth class. This class is insane in small group PvP simply because of the damage paired with it's awesome mobility and utility.

Only time this class lacks on the damage is when using the Scrapper tree on targets below 30% health (Which is mainly PvE.) Scrapper can use some form of an execute. Perhaps an auto-crit to Back Blast on targets below 30% health.
I don't believe I am out of my mind to call for a hidden strike proc out of stealth. To prove my point lets look at what other classes have as pic table burst in comparison:

Assassin: maul proc
Jugg/marauder: auto crit smash (which, by the way is BOTH the hardest hitting ability in the game AND an aoe).
Merc: heat seeker missile
Sorc: auto crit thundering blast plus instant chain lightning proc

So yeah. If all those classes have hard hitting moves/moves with a 30m range that they can use quite frequently then why don't concealment operatives have something similar?
Wurdlol
<Hey im mvp>
www.twitch.tv/wurdlolswtor

Morde_'s Avatar


Morde_
07.30.2013 , 08:47 PM | #17
Quote: Originally Posted by Yestreen View Post
First off, both Morde and Marshmallow are in the same guild so they bounced ideas off each other.
Marshmallow is not in our guild [...]
Scold
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
I will also offer to duel your marauder, for any amount of money
Quote: Originally Posted by LegendaryQuan View Post
i dont have cold feet. im just not going to give away $300 walking into an unwinnable situation.
Biggest welch in Bastion history.
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Thorriin's Avatar


Thorriin
07.30.2013 , 11:09 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by Gren-Aluren View Post
My questions are:

Why doesn't Scoundrel Scrapper tree have some form of a finisher ability?
Instead of tying it to Scrapper, add a new skill tied to the Scoundrel class itself, so it can benefit Dirty Fighting as well. I don't believe the 15% extra DoT damage from Cold Blooded counts as a "finisher".
Never Tell Us the Odds
Thorriin -- Scoundrel
Daņo -- Guardian
The Bastion US PvP

Thorriin's Avatar


Thorriin
07.30.2013 , 11:11 PM | #19
Also I would like to add that even with Hotwired Defenses in the Dirty Fighting tree, Defense Screen is still lacking. Is there anything being done to somewhat "improve" it?
Never Tell Us the Odds
Thorriin -- Scoundrel
Daņo -- Guardian
The Bastion US PvP

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.31.2013 , 02:38 AM | #20
Quote: Originally Posted by Morde_ View Post
Marshmallow is not in our guild ...
Pretty sure the majority of ideas were general Operative/Scoundrel ideas for the community.

----
Next part isn't connected to Morde_ or the quote but in general. Is there anything in the opener that has NOT been expressed by multiple people in the scoundrel/operative community? Instead of arguing about if things were plagiarized or grabbed from other people, how about focusing on actually expressing opinions. Both the state, what questions you want answered and also in remembering to word the questions so they are open ended and require a good reply.

Regardless of anyone's opinions of Marshmellow, he's the representative, but he is there to forward questions and pass them on. So how about giving him the things he needs rather than wasting time? You know, less focus on a specific character/player and more focus on the actual class.

Nothing Marshmellow posted was "Morde's" ideas. Hell, even morde's initial post grabbed from existing threads (yes, he gave credit, but point remains thats HIS job. To gather the community's ideas). Both are gathering ideas that Operatives AND Scoundrel's have expressed (because they are mirrors so ignoring the other side is stupid) and posting them as a whole.