ETA on Advanced Class change?

He's not trying to "enforce his rules" on others. He is arguing for BW NOT to change the rules BW set, not him.



He is pointing out that those who want class changes are asking for the rules in place to be changed to suit their desires without regard to how those changes will affect others.




Again, choosing your class at level 11 does not affect others, but CHANGING that class at level 55 DOES affect others, and you have been arguing for allowing class changes up to level 55.



Asking for the rules already set in place by the devs not to be changed is not the same as wanting everyone play "his" way.

Ratajack, I hope your not throwing in with MajikMyst. I would think the reasons that is not a good idea are obvious.

I should probably have listed a longer list of game aspects that can be considered to give an advantage, my fault. Companion affection gives a very minor boost to crew mission/crafting critical results and could give a resultant advantage to anyone playing the GTN economy.

Where most draw the line for what affects them in game play is another players access to end game BiS gear and the ability to generate credits. With the introduction of the cartel market and the ability to resell packs and gear on the GTN (a de facto ingame gold seller, that is real cash for ingame credits) this second factor has become less of an issue. The major concern for most would be a players ability to completely bypass the gear grind aspect of the endgame.

Even then, I am not opposed on a fundamental level, to allowing for the purchase within the cartel market of a level 55 character equipped in level 72 purples, with all companions at max affection. They have essentially paid to bypass the content but that would be their choice and would still not detract from your achievements made in game in any way.

I spend time running dailies and fps to earn credits, it does not offend me that other players chose to pay cash for packs and vendor them on the gtn so they can spend more time doing the content they like.

I think what cause most offense on this issue is the attachment of a real world price against the time I have put in.

Run Ilum, Black Hole and Section X takes anywhere between one and a half to two hours and nets me on average 400,000 credits.
Purchase a cartel pack for 360 ccs and vendor it on GTN for 400,000 credits (usually about this price for the most recent pack) costs about £2 and takes virtually no time.
Most people would be offended to think their time is only worth about £1 an hour

Why stop short of allowing creation of max level characters with all companions at max affection with all companion unlocks and BIS gear if a player has already achieved all those things on one character. That player may not find those things to be "fun", and instead simply "time sinks". It really has little to no impact on how player A plays the game if player B creates that max level character.

I believe you would be correct as the devs have already stated that they intentionally designed the classes(AC's) such that no one character could fill all three roles. Allowing class (AC) changes would negate this, even if a character did not have access to tanking and healing abilities at the same time, it still undermines the design intent of not allowing a single character access to tanking AND healing abilities at any time.

The forums have always been comprised of a vocal minority, and there are likely just as many players who do not frequent the forums who would oppose class changes as there are players who would favor class changes who do not frequent the forums.

With regards to drawing back players to the game, they might draw some players back, but they will definitely lose some players if they allow class changes. Would they draw back as many as they would lose? Would there be as many players who resub as would unsub and leave this game? No one knows, but it is possible that BW is content to keep the player base it already has rather than risk losing players in the hopes that they draw some players back in.

Remember, any players they draw back in have already left this game once and would be more likely to leave this game again than those who have stayed with it from the time they started playing.

As I said before, right now they have those posters who are against class changes paying and playing, as well as those who are in favor of class changes. If they allow class changes, those who feel strongly enough about class changes WILL leave. Does it make more financial sense to keep everyone playing and playing or to keep only some of those paying and playing now?

This is ultimately where it leads.

At what point does "I'm a Merc but want to be a PT" become " I'm a Merc but want to be an Inquisitor"?

I think many of the arguments against allowing an AC change, or even the chance to discuss such a change, fall back on this wording. While I was never in Beta I did follow the progress and seem to recall the wording was less definitive, I can only assume it had to be beefed up due to players wanting the AC change option at the time.

I would agree with you however on the point that it is 'one of the things in this game where you pick one or the other and you are stuck with it' I would say beyond the initial choice of class it is the ONLY aspect of the game that is a meaningful and permanent.

With the customisation booth aside from gender all aspects of the characters appearance set on creation can be altered.

During the story your conversation choices are more for flavour, there are no branching paths, with virtually no significant outcomes that I can think of.

Most choices are reflected in the e-mail you get.
The story has to be linear to make sure you hit all the set piece elements.

Light/Dark side choices are largely irrelevant. Can go back and rerun FPs to alter or maintain a neutral position. Items with a requirement are not BiS and are usually a straight mirror so it only affects those that are attempting to stay grey. Dark side appearance can be turned off, their is no light side appearance change.


And yet you can rerun Heroics, FPs and OPs and choose to take different choices in the conversation options every time you run it. Light side one day Dark side the next. Nothing in this game is truly permanent aside from the initial story you chose to play (which I agree with) and the AC you choose (which I disagree with).
I feel the roleplaying aspect would actually be enhanced by allowing for an AC change as I see the AC as a sub-set of the core class and a mechanical means of separating abilities that may cause balance issues.
My main is a Light side Bounty Hunter, more a gun for hire with a conscience, as likely to hire himself out as a bodyguard and protector as he is to go after criminals that have evaded the local authorities. In this role it is just as valid to see him want to go the healer role (Mercenary) as it is tank (Powertech), which is a choice based on the particular ability set and equipment (both of which see similar variation when choosing a different skill tree within an AC).


This is one of the main reasons I seem to be such a passionate advocate for allowing an AC change in the future. You really don't get a feel for how an AC is going to play until quite late in the game. The full rotation only becomes available in the mid to late 40s. By this time you have made a considerable investment into your character. To abandon it and relevel the alternative class knowing the story will be the same (minor changes if you chose a different gender/ convo choices) and not knowing if the issues are one of the class itself or just the AC.


I don't think it is a core mechanic with regards to Lore or Star Wars. Obviously it is a current core mechanic of the game and one I would like to see altered sometime in the future.
I think this issue would have been lessened or even eliminated if the AC choice was made at first level before you even start playing. You would not experience any part of the game as just a Bounty Hunter and there would be no connection to the thought that the Mercenary/ Powertech is just a subset of the Bounty Hunter class.
Only on replay would you realise that the two share so much like initial appearance, story, companions, legacy buff, restricted gear, and a core of abilities.

It doesn't ultimately lead anywhere, I think you may be relying on the Slippery Slope Fallacy

While we both are on the same side of this issue, I'm not "throwing in" with him, but at the same time, I feel obligated to bring light to what I find to be an obviously "less than completely honest" representation of his post.

However, as the game stands it is not unreasonable to see the AC as a subset of the starting class. It doesn't need to be any more complex than that