ETA on Advanced Class change?

I think many of the arguments against allowing an AC change, or even the chance to discuss such a change, fall back on this wording. While I was never in Beta I did follow the progress and seem to recall the wording was less definitive, I can only assume it had to be beefed up due to players wanting the AC change option at the time.

I would agree with you however on the point that it is 'one of the things in this game where you pick one or the other and you are stuck with it' I would say beyond the initial choice of class it is the ONLY aspect of the game that is a meaningful and permanent.

With the customisation booth aside from gender all aspects of the characters appearance set on creation can be altered.

During the story your conversation choices are more for flavour, there are no branching paths, with virtually no significant outcomes that I can think of.

Most choices are reflected in the e-mail you get.
The story has to be linear to make sure you hit all the set piece elements.

Light/Dark side choices are largely irrelevant. Can go back and rerun FPs to alter or maintain a neutral position. Items with a requirement are not BiS and are usually a straight mirror so it only affects those that are attempting to stay grey. Dark side appearance can be turned off, their is no light side appearance change.

And yet you can rerun Heroics, FPs and OPs and choose to take different choices in the conversation options every time you run it. Light side one day Dark side the next. Nothing in this game is truly permanent aside from the initial story you chose to play (which I agree with) and the AC you choose (which I disagree with).
I feel the roleplaying aspect would actually be enhanced by allowing for an AC change as I see the AC as a sub-set of the core class and a mechanical means of separating abilities that may cause balance issues.
My main is a Light side Bounty Hunter, more a gun for hire with a conscience, as likely to hire himself out as a bodyguard and protector as he is to go after criminals that have evaded the local authorities. In this role it is just as valid to see him want to go the healer role (Mercenary) as it is tank (Powertech), which is a choice based on the particular ability set and equipment (both of which see similar variation when choosing a different skill tree within an AC).

This is one of the main reasons I seem to be such a passionate advocate for allowing an AC change in the future. You really don't get a feel for how an AC is going to play until quite late in the game. The full rotation only becomes available in the mid to late 40s. By this time you have made a considerable investment into your character. To abandon it and relevel the alternative class knowing the story will be the same (minor changes if you chose a different gender/ convo choices) and not knowing if the issues are one of the class itself or just the AC.

I don't think it is a core mechanic with regards to Lore or Star Wars. Obviously it is a current core mechanic of the game and one I would like to see altered sometime in the future.
I think this issue would have been lessened or even eliminated if the AC choice was made at first level before you even start playing. You would not experience any part of the game as just a Bounty Hunter and there would be no connection to the thought that the Mercenary/ Powertech is just a subset of the Bounty Hunter class.
Only on replay would you realise that the two share so much like initial appearance, story, companions, legacy buff, restricted gear, and a core of abilities.

i still dont understand how anyone can think this is a good idea or a valuable use of bw resources

I'm not sure it does makes the choice you make for your characters 'Role' less meaningful it just allows players to find their preferred style without having to retread old ground.
I think it is very important to make a characters 'Role' such as Healer, Tank and DPS have meaning. With regards to this a character specced as Healer should not be outhealed by a character specced as DPS. If such was the case then the choice really would be arbitrary.
I would like to see the gear a 'Role' requires to also be separated out to make more of a distinction. While it is obvious that a Tank needs different gear to a DPS most Healers can get by in exactly the same gear as they use from their DPS spec (this may not be the case in top end nightmare mode min/maxed raid groups but for general average gaming it is).
I also think that all of the class stories should have had access to all of these Roles. Maybe in the future if the suggestion of new ACs ever comes to pass this could be resolved.
For some gamers they chose a 'Role' to specialise in and perfect, for others they like to dabble across the spectrum.

You'll have to forgive me, but I just can't understand this point of view. Meaningful, just seems so incongruous with a video game.

Don't get me wrong, I love gaming (been doing it for almost 30 years) but I just don't understand why people attach so much importance to it. I'll couch that by saying I don't see any form of entertainment as meaningful. Fun and engaging sure, but meaningful no.

That said, while you see it as something you want to have meaning, but others don't, locking them into the AC choice, which lets face it at level 10 is pretty arbitrary because even if you want to heal or tank (dps is pointless as it is only a different way to dps) you cant know whether you like it or not until you play it for minimum 15 levels.

Me, I enjoy the story of this game, which doesn't change based on AC (only parent class), so for me the more important thing is keeping my story, unlocks, pets, mounts, and what not intact and less important on how I dps. But the is probably why this debate keeps raging, I have no way of comprehending where you coming from and seeing why a concession would be so important to you . But I can still respect your opinion and appreciate the none rage filled troll manner in which you have presented it.

While I don't have the on hand metrics BW has, and many of the gamers who the idea of an AC change would be appealing to have either unsubbed or don't frequent the forums, I know from friends (at least two, maybe more) they can't be bothered to play certain classes because they don't want to relevel.

Anecdotal evidence is always the poorest and they may be telling me this to spare my feelings rather than tell me the truth such is the case with any feedback.

But it suggests that there are players out there who started playing and stopped because the AC choice they made was the wrong one and the lack the time and or incentive to relevel the alternative AC in the hope that it offers what they wanted.

I'm not a programmer, although I have brushed shoulders with those who are and fumbled around under the bonnet of game editors such as the Aurora toolset. I would hope all the class abilities have unique identifiers. You need to recognise which AC is currently active, switch between two ability lists, and keep track of advancement of abilities. But it is very easy to be a backseat programmer

Valuable use of resources? The more attached a player feels to their character, the more potential use they feel they have with it, the more choices available, the more time they are likely to spend playing it and purchasing nice shiney items for it from the cartel market.

I can explain the meaningful part if anyone is interested.

I get into my characters role in the universe. His AC is his "specialization", his ability set that defines him in that world.

I like this definition because it adds some uniqueness to him as a character in gameplay...unique specials, unique animations, etc. I want to feel like I am playing a real commando, not just a toon with a fancy name.

This game fails at that in a bad way IMO. Yes, it offers some unique animations, but the specials are almost exactly the same as it's mirror class....no real uniqueness there except for visual cues. Heck, I even set up my quickbars the same way on both factions....the same rotation works.

Second, I keep getting referred to in the game, in different areas as my base class, as if my specialization does not exist. It's like being called a grunt all the time when you are a Green Beret....it just cheapens the overall experience for me.

So, this choices only real meaning comes across as a silly message that says it's important and permanent, and an opportunity to see some neat animations and add dps or heals perhaps....not my idea of what an AC should be.

That is where it falls short, and allowing AC change, IMO, would further erode what little meaning the choice has.

You want to hear something funny.

I can actually understand that, and some what agree. But as an Imperial Agent I would find it more believable if the military allowed me to get additional specialized training. As real military's allow their service members to continue to gain specialized training, effectively not allowing me to do that doesn't make sense to me (from a story perspective).

In fact as an Agent I see my job is to get the job done by any means necessary, which would mean I should be able to do it from a distance or up close and personal.

So I actually can understand what you mean as you describe it in that sense, to me allowing me to change actually is more 'immersive' as that is what a real military would do.

I'm interested

I couldn't agree with you more on the first part, although as the game is laid out with a focus on the story and this story is defined by the class you choose, I've always seen the Advanced Class as a subset.

In more roleplaying terms my character can acquire all the skills and abilities but needs to focus on one aspect (role) at any particular time, requiring a different rotation and gear setup. I've always found in table top games you are able to get more unique and individual characters by playing in non-class based systems. I feel my character should be able to cope with learning more than one skill set but should be restricted to only employing one at a time (In many respects I feel the current ease with which you can respect as a subscriber is a step too easy, I would like to see it restricted to a terminal on the character's ship)

I'd say the mechanics behind the abilities are identical after all they are mirror classes. The story elements and class restricted creation choices/ gear provide what limited uniqueness there is, and even then the appearance aspect has faded with the introduction of Adaptive gear.

It is one of the small drawbacks of making a game fully 'voice over'. It becomes increasingly prohibitive to cater for all aspects that could vary. While I wouldn't want to go back to games that are purely text based it was nice to see a character referred to by their actual name. Maybe one workaround would be a computer terminal/ communications interface that reads out text based information like the e-mails. But then with the ever increasing weirdness of names players are required to take I could imagine this would be even more jarring for some of the late arrivals

I think an AC should be a subset of the main class, a game mechanic to restrict access to abilities that may have balance issues if available at the same time.
In wanting to see uniqueness I would love to see the skills and abilities opened up so I can have more input into how my character plays. Class based systems always feel so artificial and claustrophobic to me.
If lightning attacks have always been the bread and butter of the Darkside why restrict it to Sith? Why can't a Darkside Jedi use lightning? Why can't Lightside Sith throw pebbles and rocks? Darth Vader made more use of Project than lightning attacks.
True uniqueness of character would come from having an unrestricted abilities system, however in a large scale game this would issue in any manner of synergy/ balance nightmares and inexperienced players finding they never have the right build. In many respects the class system is the developers way of giving premade templates of optimal builds with a little bit of room for a player to define their role.

I feel the choice if it has to be there at all is ten levels too late. I think, as I mentioned in a previous post, it is the only choice you will make in the game that has any permanency, all other choices that previously existed having been removed. I would have much rather seen companion death left in, species selection made permanent, story choices have real impact, but I guess that is not the way of an MMO these days.

U guys need to go with cloning and push for that. That way u can have a sent and a guard or a shadow and a sage or a mando and a van or a scoundrel and a gunslinger and only have have to go thru the story line once. This really is the best option and fits the timeline perfectly........

No thanks. That opens up the very valid argument that you are getting an ADDITIONAL character that you have not levelled. Not the choice to use one set of abilities OR the other on the SAME character.

The choice of which skillset a character has available to them is the biggest concern. Not effectively giving them a high level toon they have not levelled.

Besides a clone of a Powertech would still be a Powertech