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Dread Guard nerf - Catering to the Casual


Airwolfe's Avatar


Airwolfe
07.25.2013 , 05:54 PM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
Airwolfe I think you are still missing the point and trying to beat a dead horse back to life.
This is definitely not a dead horse - has a very real purpose. To preserve maximal challenges for those of us who play the game to the fullest potential and want to be pushed to the limits of performance. That's absolutely a fun draw to any MMO, thus is a very large draw to raiders' subscriptions.
Bioware is driving away subscriptions by nerfing..and people are going back to WoW or will be going to Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 over this.
I personally will lose complete interest in the game if Nightmare fights all become carebear mode, thus I am unhappy with any nerf to a fight which has been killed ever by anyone within the first month or so.
Airwolfe - Marauder <Chosen>

Airwolfe's Avatar


Airwolfe
07.25.2013 , 05:58 PM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by Terro_Fett View Post
Having the 2nd boss in the raid be dissproportionatly tuned is not the correct model. Styrak and The Terror should be as tough as pre-nerf DG were. The DG should NOT be the most difficult enounter in the raid.
I get that, and actually agree. But the fact is, DG was where it needed to be in the original version.
The other fights (most of them - Writhing Horror, Operator, Dash'roode, Titan 6 maybe) were disproportionately too low of difficulty.
Airwolfe - Marauder <Chosen>

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.25.2013 , 11:26 PM | #93
So many carebears in this thread. Gotta get past terror and thrasher before you can post about catering to casuals:P

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
07.26.2013 , 04:33 AM | #94
Damn shots fired

Dearthstone's Avatar


Dearthstone
07.26.2013 , 12:19 PM | #95
My guild, which borders on casual/hardcore, is still in the top 20 on the official progression thread despite being 1 and 2/3 of 5 in NiM TFB. While the Dreadguards are admittedly easier now, i don't think there's gonna be a rash of guilds downing it now. In all 3 configurations the fight was and remains to be very difficult. IMO going from 10 to 20 guilds able to down a fight is not exactly "catering to the casual." That being said, mad props to all the guilds who were able to complete this encounter in its original release.

ErosGyne's Avatar


ErosGyne
07.26.2013 , 12:45 PM | #96
yes, because 20 guilds(20x16= 320 or 20x8=160), from 160 to 320 players that can clear the new NiM in a universe of +1Milion player base is Catering to the Casual

Edit: numbers are not 100% accurate, i am sure that the guilds that can clear it are less and the numbers os SWTOR player base is higher, but you get me idea, if not, not my problem

msfyoung's Avatar


msfyoung
07.26.2013 , 12:53 PM | #97
Quote: Originally Posted by Airwolfe View Post
This is definitely not a dead horse - has a very real purpose. To preserve maximal challenges for those of us who play the game to the fullest potential and want to be pushed to the limits of performance. That's absolutely a fun draw to any MMO, thus is a very large draw to raiders' subscriptions.
Bioware is driving away subscriptions by nerfing..and people are going back to WoW or will be going to Final Fantasy XIV 2.0 over this.
I personally will lose complete interest in the game if Nightmare fights all become carebear mode, thus I am unhappy with any nerf to a fight which has been killed ever by anyone within the first month or so.
You don't appear to realise how few people are like you. There are 12 confirmed kills of DG. That's it. That's not even 100 players. No company that wants to stay in business is going to create content that only 100 people ever see (ie everything past DG).

The fight is still far beyond the capabilities of at least 95% of the playerbase. It is hard by any reasonable definition of the word. If you don't find it hard, then you're just very unusual.

ancksunamur's Avatar


ancksunamur
07.26.2013 , 02:49 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by msfyoung View Post
You don't appear to realise how few people are like you. There are 12 confirmed kills of DG. That's it. That's not even 100 players. No company that wants to stay in business is going to create content that only 100 people ever see (ie everything past DG).

The fight is still far beyond the capabilities of at least 95% of the playerbase. It is hard by any reasonable definition of the word. If you don't find it hard, then you're just very unusual.
Really??? How many cleared Sunwell and Naxx 40 in comparison to the population? Last I check those were the 2 largest period of growth for Blizzard. And now that everyone can see the content, their population is steadily declining. History proves your theory wrong
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Krazy_Karl's Avatar


Krazy_Karl
07.26.2013 , 05:25 PM | #99
Quote: Originally Posted by ancksunamur View Post
Really??? How many cleared Sunwell and Naxx 40 in comparison to the population? Last I check those were the 2 largest period of growth for Blizzard. And now that everyone can see the content, their population is steadily declining. History proves your theory wrong
You do realize that the gaming culture was decidedly different nearly a decade ago. These comparisons of SWTOR to WoW are ridiculous. Extended periods of playing (8-10 hour marathon sessions) and raiding was a job (40+ hours a week) not a game.

Frankly at that time period of the growth of the MMO, there was a much larger portion of gamers who yearned for that type of content. The majority of said players are for all intensive purposes extinct.
  • WoW: 1% of 10,000,000: 100,000 players.
  • SWTOR: 1% of 700,000: 7,000 players.

So for Blizzard that is 100,000 players paying a subscription to pay developers for the hardest content, compared to 7,000 players for Bioware. And frankly, saying 1% of SWTOR players are completing the content is generous. In it's original form, it is actual fractions of a percent. In addition, WoW was not F2P, which means, they were being paid by EVERYONE playing which means even if only 1% of players saw the content, it was enough to keep them developing it.

You also have to add in to the fact, that none of this "content" is new. It is the same raids tuned for higher levels of gear and coordination.

So your comparisons are apples to oranges, and do nothing to add to the actual debate that nerfing the encounter good or bad for SWTOR. Subscriptions are dwindling, content is released at a snails pace.

So history has proven nothing, other than allowing you to make idiotic comparisons.

Regards,
KK
Try not. Do or do not, there is no try. - Yoda

msfyoung's Avatar


msfyoung
07.26.2013 , 06:24 PM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by ancksunamur View Post
Really??? How many cleared Sunwell and Naxx 40 in comparison to the population? Last I check those were the 2 largest period of growth for Blizzard. And now that everyone can see the content, their population is steadily declining. History proves your theory wrong
Correlation is not causation.

Strange argument to bring up though, given that the most popular games on the market are generally considered dumbed down for casuals. It's clearly a rather successful strategy. (and no, I don't like it - I'm not a casual player at all).

If this were a solo game, I would love content as hard as pre-nerf DG. As it is, though, you need at least 7 other people to do ops, and most people have jobs and whatnot and simply don't have the time required to complete that level of difficulty. So for the sake of me ever doing such content, I'm happy it's easier. It's still bloody hard though. Anyone who says it isn't has a *very* unusual conception of difficulty.