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Dread Guard nerf - Catering to the Casual


Airwolfe's Avatar


Airwolfe
07.23.2013 , 09:04 PM | #81
Quote: Originally Posted by Rambeezy View Post
This thread makes me lol

umm, to the op. The current fight is more like what we wanted, the pre-nerf version was a pure guild destroyer.

The fight, as its currently tuned, is still miles past what the "casual" guild may expect to clear. Yes it no longer requires your dps to all be putting up some of the best numbers in the world, but it still requires amazing dps from all 4 dps.
Not sure who you're referring to when you say 'what we wanted' but from all the feedback from all 16 man guilds who participate in progression (and most 8 man, from what I saw on the original 'plz nerf' thread ) - almost every guild said "No Bioware, this does not need nerfs, it's already as hard as it needs to be".

Today, the fight saw a second nerf..many mistakes can be made and the fight will still be beaten.
The fact that the 10 or so guilds (8 and 16 combined) who killed this fight before ANY nerfs STILL made mistakes (I counted 10-20 in the videos I watched), is indication that this fight is clearly being made far too easy.
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Airwolfe's Avatar


Airwolfe
07.23.2013 , 09:42 PM | #82
As of today's nerf, this fight can be done with multiple deaths, sub-optimal composition and our healers actually said 'I had nothing to do so I threw dots'..because everyone was full health (this may have been during Ciphas which I'm pretty sure was always the least healing intensive).

It's now at the point that I think Hard Mode 'should' be.
Airwolfe - Marauder <Chosen>

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Airwolfe
07.23.2013 , 10:27 PM | #83
Quote: Originally Posted by uniz View Post
please stop misusing the word casual. the amount of time one plays has no correlation to how skilled one is. the more proper word would be unskilled. besides all content that the average ex wow player can't complete in a few tries gets nerfed now.
I don't think I ever defined, or would define the word "casual" based on how much time one plays.
To me it means "Desirous of nerfs on content which can/has been beaten by others", or "wants loot handed to them without any real effort put forth". Or perhaps "one who plays games not for the sake of a challenge/mental stimulation, but moreso for social purposes".
Airwolfe - Marauder <Chosen>

dscount's Avatar


dscount
07.24.2013 , 10:17 AM | #84
Airwolfe I think you are still missing the point and trying to beat a dead horse back to life.

It's a BUSINESS. If NiM was built to only be done by lets say 1,000 of 1,000,000 people for grins then it's a bad business decision to spend large amounts of coding time (Money) to make a NiM instance in the first place. The metrics (Math) behind the scenes most likely showed a very LARGE majority of the population was not completing DG, but seemed to be clearing other bosses in a much higher percentage. Heck you can see that from Torparse a little, but not a perfect picture.

Granted many folks agree some HARD Stuff should be in NiM, but also reasonable. I totally agree with Carl that last 2 bosses should be the nasty butt kicking type just like the DG Pre-Nerf. THAT makes NiM worthy of guild challenges and titles. Not slapping the nasty content on boss #2 and calling it a day. Especially after PTS was a completely different animal.
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ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
07.24.2013 , 03:20 PM | #85
considering the fact that a vast majority of the programming has gone into catering to the wider population, I don't think it's too much to ask of any business to make a boss fight that people who breeze through hard mode can chew on awhile and find compelling. Additionally, a game which offers one difficulty that is well and truly difficult will attract the kind of people who want that, and keeps players who are only interested in raiding on the hook for longer.

Honestly they should have kept the fight something truly hard for those who wanted it. They'd already programmed it. What point was there to making it so much easier? This was a fight where, no matter when you beat it, you could take pride in having beat it, even after the first nerf. Now, those of us who were progressing at a slower rate will never get that, and that really is too bad.
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Terro_Fett
07.25.2013 , 12:41 AM | #86
Quote: Originally Posted by dscount View Post
Granted many folks agree some HARD Stuff should be in NiM, but also reasonable. I totally agree with Carl that last 2 bosses should be the nasty butt kicking type just like the DG Pre-Nerf. THAT makes NiM worthy of guild challenges and titles. Not slapping the nasty content on boss #2 and calling it a day. Especially after PTS was a completely different animal.
I agree with this. I don't mind there being fights that only the top 1% (or 0.1%) can complate, but they should be the final bosses. Take Nightmare Kephess from EC, he was leaps and bounds harder than anything else in there. Even the tanks, who were very difficult, were dwarfed by Kephess in difficulty.

Having the 2nd boss in the raid be dissproportionatly tuned is not the correct model. Styrak and The Terror should be as tough as pre-nerf DG were. The DG should NOT be the most difficult enounter in the raid.

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DrunkWithAGun
07.25.2013 , 04:05 AM | #87
Personally I think the DG boss is now more on par with the other NiM bosses. Yesterday we did our first real tries on the DG boss ever since the week it was released and we downed it. As a healer I completely agree with the fact that the fight has lost much of it's healing intensity. One time the only reason we died was because 5 people in a row (yes 5!!!! first 2, then 3 more) got a red circle which we as healers could no longer keep up with. Keeping both tanks alive and 2 people with red circles, of which one had wither too, at the same time was NO problem at all. NONE.

To be fair it is still harder to us than the 3rd and 4th boss but I guess that's because we had a lot more practice on those than we had on the DG's.
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ElitehunterDS's Avatar


ElitehunterDS
07.25.2013 , 08:48 AM | #88
Quote: Originally Posted by Airwolfe View Post
As of today's nerf, this fight can be done with multiple deaths, sub-optimal composition and our healers actually said 'I had nothing to do so I threw dots'..because everyone was full health (this may have been during Ciphas which I'm pretty sure was always the least healing intensive).

It's now at the point that I think Hard Mode 'should' be.
The issue was always dps imbalance, instead they took the easy way out and nerfed the fight, but the same issue can come back next tier, which i expect to be.
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Haargh
07.25.2013 , 11:32 AM | #89
I usually dont complain about boss 'nerfs', but this was a completely idiotic nerf on the Dread Guards. We killed it weeks ago, but seeing this stat eof the boss and compare to the other version, its like not even the same fight anymore.. I can agree with the health pool nerf, only because the current unbalance of the dps classes (shadows/vanguards vs gunslingers/sentinels), but nerfing the damage output of the bosses just ridiculous. Why? I cant think a reason why they had to do this, the tank classes and heal classes are fine (maybe a shadow tanks are a bit weaker these days), you could kill the boss even with the most idiotic heal/tank compostitions.

I know that Bioware wont buff back the boss, at least there isnt a precedent for that in MMO history, but please next time dont swing the nerf bat this wide and without reason on Nightmare bosses. its supposed to be harder than the joke state of the HM bosses.

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Felkroth
07.25.2013 , 04:43 PM | #90
I tell my healers nightly how appericative I am for their ability and willingness to play as a healer class in this game. Its either super duper pain in the *** to heal crap (i.e. pre-nerf-nerf orginal dreadguards) or its a snooze fest boring as can be (current dreadguards).

I played EQ2 as a healer for 8+ years....I enjoyed it 100x better than healing in this game, so I always make sure to thank my healers here.

Perhaps EQ2 had too much capabilities for healing classes, but I always feel like I don't have enough tools at my disposal to do the healing job (maybe thats why I don't heal in this game)....EQ2, as an Inquisitor we'd have:

single small heal
single big heal
single class specific heal
group ae direct heal
group ae class specific heal
alternative achievement group class specific heal on longer reuse
single target cure
group cure
2nd group cure from advanced class capabilities as an Inquisitor (from our mythical class weapon)
death prevent Oh s*** ability
Oh s*** single target class specific heal ability
Oh s*** group class specific heal ability

Not to mention tons of other stuff I'm forgetting perhaps...

seems SWTOR kinda dipped their toes into the class specific healing trinity like EQ2 had (Reactive healing, HoT Healing, and Shield/Protective/Ward healing)


Dunno really how I got off on this tangent about my gripes with healing in this game in relation to ops....something to do with the pain and annoyance our healers had when we killed dreadguards before they ever got nerfed versus how they felt about the fight after this latest nerf... I guess.