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what are the 3 changes you need to see in the Merc class?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Commando / Mercenary
what are the 3 changes you need to see in the Merc class?

stockwizzle's Avatar


stockwizzle
07.21.2013 , 10:27 AM | #1
what are the 3 changes you need to see in the Merc class? the commandos have gotten into this alot and i would like the mercs to also get into it so we can focus on improving the merc/mando class so lets get together some concerns for the class representative to compile to be able to ask the devs when it is his turn.. the things i think our class really needs is utility something that makes us needed in ranked pvp or other ops if you guys need ideas of what the merc mando class need you could run by the commando forums and you will find alot of discussion on this very topic
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DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
07.21.2013 , 05:45 PM | #2
A little bit more DPS potential would be nice so we could be more competitive with Snipers and Maras. I think that if heat was a little bit more manageable that would be nice. I know we can technically get by, but we can't really deviate from our rotation at all if we want to keep heat down. I think that making Unload proc more frequently, at least for arsenal, could help with that and it could increase our DPS as well. Or you could have rapid shots actually lower your heat instead of just costing no heat.
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MarkXXIV's Avatar


MarkXXIV
07.21.2013 , 07:25 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEndonae View Post
A little bit more DPS potential would be nice so we could be more competitive with Snipers and Maras. I think that if heat was a little bit more manageable that would be nice. I know we can technically get by, but we can't really deviate from our rotation at all if we want to keep heat down. I think that making Unload proc more frequently, at least for arsenal, could help with that and it could increase our DPS as well. Or you could have rapid shots actually lower your heat instead of just costing no heat.
I think heat and concussion missiles cast time are 2 issues. Merc already parses close to a sniper on a dummy but does even better in pvp because it has 55% ignore armor on all its attacks and 85% on unload and railshot. Also merc has healing that sniper doesn't have(kolto overloads,bomb,etc) and more mobility.
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DarthEndonae's Avatar


DarthEndonae
07.21.2013 , 11:09 PM | #4
Mercs have healing (that isn't great), but if they use it, their heat goes way up and they're DPS consequently goes down because of the heat problem. Snipers have mitigation from several abilities AND have better resource management. Honestly, I don't see much point of comparing the dummies, all it shows is that a couple of really talented people got lucky enough in the parses to be CLOSE to Snipers. They don't show what happens in the field where it matters. And what's so hard about boosting a few abilities a tiny bit to make it more even?
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Felzuun - Mercenary
Ardenia - Juggernaut --Merrus - Marauder
Nalisk - Sniper

Knopik's Avatar


Knopik
07.22.2013 , 05:05 PM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by DarthEndonae View Post
Mercs have healing (that isn't great), but if they use it, their heat goes way up and they're DPS consequently goes down because of the heat problem. Snipers have mitigation from several abilities AND have better resource management. Honestly, I don't see much point of comparing the dummies, all it shows is that a couple of really talented people got lucky enough in the parses to be CLOSE to Snipers. They don't show what happens in the field where it matters. And what's so hard about boosting a few abilities a tiny bit to make it more even?
You're right. To get those good parses, a merc has to basically rely on the RNG. Unload procs and crit need to be friendly with you for that parse. I've had parses with 50+% HSM crit, but 15% unload crit and almost no procs (compared to the average), that parse sucked. I've alos had parses with CRAZY UNLOAD PROCS, but terrible crit % on abilities across the board, that parse sucked. The only good ones, 2900+ are with good RNG. I won't even go into 3000+ range.
Snipers don't need the RNG, their rotation is uninterruptable. They don't rely on procs for their hardest damaging ability, it's always there. (just one comparison).
If they upped the unload chance, then it'd help. 45% sometimes seems like 4.5% on my parses. I go 45 seconds and more without an unload proc at times, and not just once, but several times in a row. It's just either buggy, something related to position, or i'm just very unlucky. I've found that if I have bad procs, and if I move, my procs will come back...but that may just be a huge coincidence.

As for suggestions, lower the CD of electro net to 1 minute so it lines up with other cooldowns. Either lower the cd of power surge to 1 minute or make it longer to 2 minutes so it lines up with cooldowns. And increase barrage proc rate.

stockwizzle's Avatar


stockwizzle
07.23.2013 , 11:52 AM | #6
i agree with what you guys have said but i really think the merc/mando needs more utility to be a more coveted AC to bring into raids ops and ranked pvp.. as of right now i know that we are not needed in any of those situations if you can bring a different class instead... i know the easiest way to be more wanted is to produce more damage but i think that is more a short term answer adding more utility(and hopefully the more damage just comes along with it since the devs how to know about all the parses and what not that have happen) one suggestion that has been made is the effect of electro net be added to our full auto (basically not escape/gap closers) or even just shorten the CD on electronet but yeah im hoping to get more mercs involved in this discussion for when the class reps talk to the devs because the merc/mando class needs alot of help in order to be on par with other classes and has needed it for a long time
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SUPANOOBA COMMANDO - POT5
*******EXODUS************************************* *******

mandoforlife's Avatar


mandoforlife
07.23.2013 , 09:17 PM | #7
Yeah, adding the hinder debuff to the target during the duration of unload was proposed by Cashogy. I think its a pretty great idea, since if makes the Jet Boost > Unload combo more effective on leapers. Here's my 3 topics

PvE: Heat management, aggrevated by the change of the set bonus. I don't do PvE, so I can't comment much, but this is the complaint I see most.

PvP: Pyro. They gutted the spec with last minute nerfs on the PTS for 2.0, and its considered to be the worst Advanced Class PvP spec out of all the classes. We have no cleanse protection, and all our damage was turned into fluff. We have very little takedown power, and you can forget about pressuring a healer. Thermal Det had its upfront kinetic damage cut in half, and the other half was replaced with a cleanse-able, lack-luster DoT. This spec needs looking at.

The General Question: Cooldown times. Why does our AC have such long CDs compared to other ACs? Power Surge, TSO and Electo Net are the main culprits here. Would they consider lowering any of our CDs? Or even adding an Offensive CD? For "walking arsenals", our lack of a full fledged offensive CD is suprising.
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Akfourtys's Avatar


Akfourtys
07.24.2013 , 07:11 AM | #8
True jet elevated movement , making us unreachable for melees f.e. for 6 seconds. You move as usual, but higher by 6 meters.
But this way my imagination fails for commando ac.
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kennethdale's Avatar


kennethdale
07.24.2013 , 11:15 AM | #9
Just posted this in an older thread but it applies here too, what do you guys think of this:

Quote: Originally Posted by kennethdale View Post
I realize this thread is a little old but since someone else dug it up let me give my 2p. When I'm leveling, I don't pay much attention to ability text so when I got Jet Boost, this is exactly what I thought it was. I figured it pushed you around or upped your speed because the idea of Jet Boost pushing enemies back is just odd. Look at the words: "Jet" obviously referring to our jet pack and "boost" which means an increase. Why the hell does that KB? I don't think we should lose the KB, I just think Jet Boost is the wrong name...anyways...

Looking at AC and their individual in-combat mobility CDs:
Sith Inquistor - Force Speed
Sith Assassin - Force Pull
Sith Sorcer - Extricate, Surging Speed (Madness Tier 7)
Sith Warrior - Force Charge
Sith Juggernaut - Intercede, Shien Form (Vengeance Tier 3), Obliterate (Rage Tier 3), Rule of Two (Immortal Tier 6)
Sith Marauder - Predation, Ataru Form (Carnage Tier 3), Obliterate (Rage Tier 3)
Imperial Agent - Take Cover, Evasion, Covered Escape
Sniper - Seek Cover (Marksmanship Tier 5), Hit and Run (Lethality Tier 1)
Operative - Exfiltrate, Infiltrator (Concealment Tier 2), Ghost (Concealment Tier 4), Advanced Cloaking (Concealment Tier 5), Hit and Run (Lethality Tier 1)
Bounty Hunter - Hydraulic Overrides
Powertech - Grapple, Jet Charge (Shield Tech Tier 5), Jet Speed (Shield Tech Tier 5), Pneumatic Boots (Advanced Prototype Tier 3)

Not counting abilities that can slow or immobilize enemies, these are simply the abilities that allow for movement in combat (including moving an enemy into range, moving a group member into rage, moving yourself into or out of range, etc).

Looking at that Mercenaries get ONE ability and not only does it only increase speed by 30% its not even, its not even an exclusive. Look at how Sins/Sorcs were designed: Sorcs can pull friendly targets in to protect them, Sins can pull enemy targets in to control them. By that same logic why is it Snipers that get the backwards escape? And seriously, Operatives get a TON of movement stuff while Mercs get pretty much nothing. The utility of HO comes from its immunity not really from its speed buff because any gap you open up between yourself and a DPS in PvP is going to be closed by them due to their higher regular movement speed and in PvE it just isn't fast enough to get you out of danger like Force Speed does for Sorcs.

For those arguing that Mercs either shouldn't have any Jet Pack abilities or have enough (someone listed Recharge and Reload? Seriously? Our out of combat regen ability? The "Jet" effect there has no utility and is purely cosmetic) you are not thinking clearly. The only ability we have that truly uses our Jet Pack as an actual mechanic is Jet Boost. DfA does not *require* a jet pack since its simply pushing you up, you could just as easily fire the missiles from the ground. Jet Boost on the other hand has no way to function without a Jet Pack. Perhaps if it animated similarly to HO and then stomped but...too close to Overload IMO. Add to that the fact that our only defense comes down to that we wear heavy armor and can cast some heals and its just ridiculous. I do NOT use my Merc in PvP ever simply because of how easy it is to tear them up.

The WoW Warrior jump seems to close to Jet Charge so I think thats out but the jump backwards while firing is a great idea. Here is my tweak though:
Out of Harm's Way (Generates 30 Heat): Fires your Jet Boosters to blast you backwards 12 meters. When slowed, you only travel 6 meters. This ability is not affected by the global cooldown. Can be used while immobilized. Cooldown: 3 Minutes
Related Talents:
Bodyguard: Emergency Response - Out of Harm's Way now places a Kolto Pool at your feet upon landing which heals up to 4 allies for 3027-3143 over 3 seconds. Additionally, you are immune to damage and movement impairing effects for 2 seconds after activating Out of Harm's Way.
Arsenal: Out of the Fying Pan - Out of Harm's Way now increases critical strike chance by 100% for 6 seconds.
Pyrotech: Destructive Escape - Out of Harm's Way now unloads your blasters at your target while blasting backwards dealing 3087-3690 weapon damage over 3 seconds. Additionally, damage done this way hinders the target, preventing the use of high mobility actions and escapes such as charges, vanishes, and speed boosts. Lasts 2 seconds per charge, stacks up to 3 times.

So this puts it on par with the Exfiltrate (in terms of getting us out of bad situations) and Force Barrier (in terms of power VS CD) while also allowing it to be talented for increased PvE or PvP effectiveness. The typical OP argument is countered by the fact that the heat cost is so high. In PvP this shouldn't be an issue as you are rarely able to hunker down and turret for all too long, and in PvE it means that you either need to plan your Heat management around the use of this CD or use it in conjunction with Vent Heat. All of these effects are comparable to similar effects of other classes just tweaked to work for Mercs:

The basic concept is the same as a reverse exfiltrate with the exact same distances applied. The heal becomes a similar mechanic to the similar Operative roll, the Arsenal Damage increase works out to 4 instant casts, 4 Tracers, an Unload and a few others etc, and the Pyro effect gives them some additional control and mobility.

As for how this could be tuned for Commando's, that is simple: Someone else pointed out the football "spiking" concept, well you could similarly simply point such a high powered canon at the ground for a self-knockback effect. Call it Blast Free and its good.

Thoughts?
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stockwizzle's Avatar


stockwizzle
07.24.2013 , 01:30 PM | #10
i really like this idea but the only thing is that the CD is soooo long. in a pvp match you could mayyybe use it 3 times and that is it but yeah i do like this idea alot GG
************************************************** ************
SUPANOOBA COMMANDO - POT5
*******EXODUS************************************* *******