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Pay to Win


Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
07.20.2013 , 12:28 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by Propane View Post
Now excuse me while I go play better MMOs - where I am rewarded for supporting the game upon, unlike some games I know..Also with those free content update that I am allowed to enjoy without having to pay even more on top of a subscription on the cartel market.

Go ahead, close down the forum - this is the closest you will get of criticism because all F2P players are 100% ignored by this company.


Free players do not support a game.. they leech off of it. Subscribers and shop users support a game. This is in fact true of all MMOs that let you play part for free, and charge for part (aka: Freemium).
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.

Zunayson's Avatar


Zunayson
07.20.2013 , 12:33 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by oaceen View Post
i believe that's what he's saying, yes.
then wow is pay to win because my trial character isnt as good as the others?
Quote: Originally Posted by Uber_the_Goober View Post
Bioware couldn't balance a sheet of plywood if it were laying [sic] on the ground.
Quote: Originally Posted by Aragost View Post
Make sure you take 3/3 in the "knowing how to play" box

Tachenko_Yuri's Avatar


Tachenko_Yuri
07.20.2013 , 12:40 PM | #43
Try a kixeye game or a bigpoint one. Then you'll be back here and wanting to hug every single one of the devs.

Sayu's Avatar


Sayu
07.20.2013 , 02:07 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by Andryah View Post


Free players do not support a game.. they leech off of it. Subscribers and shop users support a game. This is in fact true of all MMOs that let you play part for free, and charge for part (aka: Freemium).
Sony Online Entertainment boss John Smedley has said all Planetside 2 players are equal in the developer’s eyes, because they’re “content for each other”.

....... Y-eah, okay. While different genre, It still does open the door for debate. If as a subscriber I get faster queues for FP/WZ due to more free to play players, is that such a bad thing? While I disagree swtor is pay to win, he is correct in saying free to play players are completely hindered by restrictions that no MMO should have. Subscribers should be rewarded more and get priority for everything. Free to play players shouldn't be handicapped by slower XP. Time is money, as a possible subscriber/current free to play player, are you really going to pay $15 just to gain access to the bare essentials you get in pretty much every MMO on the market? I don't care what your response to that is, you're not going to do that.

OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
07.20.2013 , 02:19 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by Sayu View Post
Sony Online Entertainment boss John Smedley has said all Planetside 2 players are equal in the developer’s eyes, because they’re “content for each other”.

....... Y-eah, okay. While different genre, It still does open the door for debate. If as a subscriber I get faster queues for FP/WZ due to more free to play players, is that such a bad thing? While I disagree swtor is pay to win, he is correct in saying free to play players are completely hindered by restrictions that no MMO should have. Subscribers should be rewarded more and get priority for everything. Free to play players shouldn't be handicapped by slower XP. Time is money, as a possible subscriber/current free to play player, are you really going to pay $15 just to gain access to the bare essentials you get in pretty much every MMO on the market? I don't care what your response to that is, you're not going to do that.
Well thats a purely PvP type of game.
They NEED as many players as they can get.
But SWTOR doesnt need a massive ammount of players that are paying nothing towards the game development. True F2P players are contributing nothing to the game unfortunately. Sure, they bolster the FP ques a bit making it slightly easier to get into a group, but this game simply isnt dependant on people grouping to truly experience the game.
You can go through the entire game 8 times without grouping once... and then just leave, having contributed nothing to the games other players.

But in PS2, you will be contributing from the second you spawn in game the first time... you are basically cannon fodder. YOU are the mobs...
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OddballEasyEight's Avatar


OddballEasyEight
07.20.2013 , 02:21 PM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Ayelinna View Post
A lot of people want this game to survive. This game went free to play in less than a year because many people felt this game wasn't worth a subscription fee, and also because this game was over hyped, it's nothing to do with "oh well the industry is changing and people prefer f2p" none of that nonsense.

There's one alternative to the CM in order to keep this game alive financially...and that's to make subscription worth something.

But the issue is that this is a casual game, and people expected a bit more than just a theme park, on rails game. I think that 1 person who buys cartel coins "casually" is worth about 5 subscribers. There's no doubt that Bioware has got a lot of money from the cartel market.

This is the only star wars MMO out there, they shut down SWG for this, (remember SWG lost so many subscribers because it tried to copy WoW and make it casual). Star wars is probably one of the worlds biggest franchises, and I personally feel that EA are exploiting it with this game.

Gone are the days of traditional MMOs.
Well that would require them to radically redesign the game which just wont happen. You dont design a game from the ground up as a themepark game and then after 2 years on the market just completely change it to the core to be a sandbox game.
Its just not financially viable since it would cost as much as making a new game (and take almost as long)
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Sayu's Avatar


Sayu
07.20.2013 , 02:23 PM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by OddballEasyEight View Post
Well thats a purely PvP type of game.
They NEED as many players as they can get.
But SWTOR doesnt need a massive ammount of players that are paying nothing towards the game development. True F2P players are contributing nothing to the game unfortunately. Sure, they bolster the FP ques a bit making it slightly easier to get into a group, but this game simply isnt dependant on people grouping to truly experience the game.
You can go through the entire game 8 times without grouping once... and then just leave, having contributed nothing to the games other players.

But in PS2, you will be contributing from the second you spawn in game the first time... you are basically cannon fodder. YOU are the mobs...
Still the same premise, If I want faster queues(with subscription) there will be more players in the pool to work with. I agree, but F2P players aren't leeches, they contribute in a big way.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
07.20.2013 , 02:30 PM | #48
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology View Post
This is a gross exaggeration. The game went FTP so EA had something to show greedy investor/exec's.
Well, to be honest this is just as speculative as the post you responded to. Either reason is just as valid and possible.

Quote:
Bio ware said it could maintain swtor with 250k subs. From what they've told us, they never dipped below 500k. Yet, here we are, FTP as they told us we would never go. Honestly, it was an excuse to churn out quick profit and sate greedy people at the expense of game quality.
I think game quality was rather poor before the launch of the Market/F2P, and has improved substantially since.

Quote:
It's no secret that gaming companies are pushing games towards the FTP model, since it nets more profit per pixel. This is not a consumer driven convention and its sad that companies think: " if we tell them FTP is the future. They will just accept it ".

Sad truth, we will, but the gamer is no better for it.
I disagree that it is not a consumer driven convention. I think it is directly driven by consumer interest and patronage. Casuals seem to have a strong interest in store purchases.

That, in combination with what seems to be a traditional (or hardcore) player exodus from the MMO market for tougher more challenging FPS games has made it likely that the market it moving toward serving it's new target audience, and that audience is very F2P/market friendly.

MSchuyler's Avatar


MSchuyler
07.20.2013 , 02:43 PM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by Spatology View Post
This is a gross exaggeration. The game went FTP so EA had something to show greedy investor/exec's.
As an investor I am taking my hard-earned money and investing it in EA in hopes that I might make more money than I do on a CD that offer 1/2 a percent interest. But I'll forego dividends and current income in hopes the stock price will rise. It might fall, in which case I will lose part or even all my investment. The point is that I RISK my money to invest in EA hoping they will make a profit and a part of that will pass to me, which I can then use for living expenses in an attempt to stay off the welfare rolls and support myself.

And what I see here is a bunch of clueless people who have no idea whatsoever about how to run a company or program a game who seem to feel they are instant experts on both and entitled to call the shots just because they subscribe for a measly $15 a month, the entitlement generation who want character transfers for free just because they say so.

Now who is the most greedy? The guy who risks his life savings in hopes a company will do well and make a profit? Or the guy who sucks everything they can out of a company claiming profit is a dirty word?

Andryah's Avatar


Andryah
07.20.2013 , 02:43 PM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by Sayu View Post
Still the same premise, If I want faster queues(with subscription) there will be more players in the pool to work with. I agree, but F2P players aren't leeches, they contribute in a big way.
So.. you want cannon fodder. Got it.

Thing is.. freemium games do not provide "queue fillers" with parity capability to you the subscriber, UNLESS they are working the non-sub side of the access model and paying a-la-cart.

True free games do.. but then again.. that's an entirely different business model in the MMO genre... and not actually free.

1) Subscription Only
2) Freemium
3) Free

And NONE of them are FREE. They each have their own specific monetization models that they follow. And generally speaking.. it is the "Free" business model that injects the most problematic P2W components into the game play.
When you find yourself surrounded by hostile Clowns... always go for the "Juggler" first.