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Commando Class Representative

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Trooper > Commando
Commando Class Representative
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cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
07.17.2013 , 12:57 AM | #91
Quote: Originally Posted by LordKantner View Post
Assault Spec has just as much burst, you can get 2 HiB's, 2nd from proc, within 3 seconds of eachother. Also Burst isn't simply high numbers, the casted abilities along with the dots in that period of time does just as much damage, and it continues to do consistent damage to be able to kill those healers.



I'm sorry but Gunnery's damage is from casted abilities. I can run around in circles doing hammer shot, incendiary, and HiB and do about an adequate 2400 dps. That is Mobility. Assault spec also has useful cooldowns like Suit Foe for things like mind crush that aren't cleans-able by us, and Electro Shield for surviveability while doing damage. It also can run efficiently at lower ammo regen (3/4 ticks) for those prolonged PvP fights and burst raid phases. Lastly, it allows you to use Plasma Grenade off cooldown due to the reduced time on recharge cells and reserve powercells. Plasma Grenade being the best Dot and hitting initially about the same as a Grav round.


I want my representative to be knowledgeable, to always be trying new things and new hybrid specs and stuff. Not to dismiss things based on rumor or because it doesn't work initially.

I have made this spec work to my advantage, I know it works. Other specs work for other people, I've even seen a nice gunnery/ incendiary round build for example. But to say this spec is simply bad is not the type of attitude I'd want in my representative.



Here are more off topic reasons if needed:

1. The Serendipitous Relic:

In the 6 seconds that you are granted the power, I am guarenteed 1 High impact bolt and 5 ticks from plasma cell or incendiary round VS. 3 grav rounds, and maybe a full cast of full auto if you're lucky it procs at the same time the relic does. This ties into the burst of PvP.

2. Dots:

If you remember in pre 2.0, Vanguards were considered by many to be overpowered due to the increased damage by burn effect at sub 30%, among other things. When it comes to finishing people off in PvP I can use both the casted abilities and the dots themselves do more damage to finish the job. The dots themselves are pretty much an execute like spinning strike and quick draw because of the talents in the spec.

3. Free Crit

As you know crit got cut significantly in 2.0. This is more of a PvE thing in importance, but by going pure power I have about 27% ranged crit. This is because of the spec and the cell I am in. Compared to gunnery going pure power I'd have 19% ranged crit. Charged Bolts also has higher minimum damage and utilizes the set bonus' 15% crit buff to maximize the crit multiplier.

Torparse links:

http://www.torparse.com/a/279930/33/0/Damage+Dealt
http://www.torparse.com/a/341102/tim...0/Damage+Dealt

wrong on so many levels
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

LordKantner's Avatar


LordKantner
07.17.2013 , 09:41 AM | #92
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
wrong on so many levels
That rude dismissal of a well thought out post is exactly why I initially didn't feel any candidates were right for the spot.

I appreciate Maniac for at least putting some useful information out there. Just a bit confused:

Tech override Grav round = 1 Global + Demo = 1 Global + 1 HiB = 1 Global. I count 3 cooldowns, not 2.
vs.
Incendiary = 1 Global + HiB = 1 Global + Fullauto + HiB, longer but geting 2 ticks of full auto in the 3 global time frame.

I actually run a 1/12/33 spec, so no plastique, I agree that needs to be changed. I am getting a HiB out every 6 secs, which would be more consistent than demo and HiB on their 15 sec cooldown. While you are right in 3 global cooldowns you are getting that initial burst, in 4 1/2 global cooldowns (incendiary, Bolt, Full auto, bolt) I am doing 35-42k damage, which i find more useful when you can kill healers despite focus heals. In comparison to Gunnery, in the 3 inital cooldowns, the 2 ticks of full auto and the HiB with the 2 ticks of incendiary/plasma average around 9-17k damage. I find it more reliable and depending less on crits. Gunnery reaches peak burst a cooldown before AS, but if that burst dosen't get the job done in killing the healer, AS will excel in finishing them off reliably and consistently. Isn't that the goal?

Lastly, I find that in gunnery, burst is much more costly ammo wise than in assault. You do have more ammo regen then in AS but it still will get depleted (Going cooldown for cooldown). Assault has reduced cost in abilities and abilities that give cells back so you can be spamming as fast as you wish.

Anyway if I had to pick anyone at this point I'd say Maniac, he has ideas at least.
Severity Gaming
Kantner - Commando AS / Kingslaya - Mercenary Pyro
Commando - Assault Specialist 2.6 PvE Guide
Gunship Record Holder For Top Kills In GSF

Gyronamics's Avatar


Gyronamics
07.17.2013 , 10:42 AM | #93
Quote: Originally Posted by LordKantner View Post
Tech override Grav round = 1 Global + Demo = 1 Global + 1 HiB = 1 Global. I count 3 cooldowns, not 2.
vs.
Incendiary = 1 Global + HiB = 1 Global + Fullauto + HiB, longer but geting 2 ticks of full auto in the 3 global time frame.
Grav + Demo + Grav + Grav + HiB + FA is more like what I do.

Tech override is wasted if you use it to send off a grav before a demo unless you are under attack and expecting heavy interrupts.

You slow cast Grav on purpose every time before a Demo because it causes both attacks to land very close together. The important part is that the Grav will always land just before a Demo, fully buffing it and giving a proc chance at the SA before the Demo round hits. This is how you spike someone for up to 15k in a WZ with no warning. The combined Grav and Demo landing and fishing for a SA proc plus a Demo crit.

The rest is a followup if you have time but you got the important huge first hit away.

There is no comparable fast strike option for AS.

AP is an abomination with barely any more spike than Sticky
Every new target requires 1 GCD minimum to ignite them to gain the 9% bonus on ranged attacks plus a debuff for HiB plus ammo regen on HiB impact
As soon as healers understand what spec you're in all they have to do to make your life hard is pop cleanse occasionally to delete thousands of potential damage and cripple your systems.
In general a commandos DoT is trivial for a healer to mop up even if they don't cleanse it.

Spikes command PVP in a team battle, one on one with the famous pillar we should hide behind AS can wear down a target and be difficult to get at but that is so rare to be able to grind someone down with no 3rd party interference that the scenario deserves all the mockery it gets.


The best damage output Assault can do is from hard casting using ranged attacks, specifically CB, HiB and sometimes FA, something like this: http://www.torparse.com/a/308048/tim...258/0/Overview

That's actually very fragile and as soon as you don't have someone producing an armour debuff for you you flat out do less damage than if you'd gone in with Gunnery.

For more details on what I think about it I have a number of threads you can find in my profile. This is not a suitable thread to be filling up with this.
Hotwired @ Not Good Enough @ ToFN

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
07.17.2013 , 12:58 PM | #94
Quote: Originally Posted by Gyronamics View Post
For more details on what I think about it I have a number of threads you can find in my profile. This is not a suitable thread to be filling up with this.
the bolded. this thread is for nominating people; thats it. cba to go into heavy discussion about things in this thread.
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
07.17.2013 , 02:19 PM | #95
Quote: Originally Posted by LordKantner View Post
-snip-
This isn't really the place for this discussion. There are other places for that kind of talk, and if you really think Assault is fine, then feel free to point that out, but do so in threads that are useful for that. Otherwise you're welcome to nominate yourself if you really want, but as far as I'm concerned not thinking assault is awesome is no reason someone shouldn't be your rep.

To me a representative needs to be able to understand the concerns of people who don't already agree with them and be able to adequately represent those concerns to the devs. I gave up Assault as a bad job awhile ago. Personal decision. If I was chosen I'd expect people who play assault to list their concerns. If a CM or Assault main was chosen I'd expect them to be able to listen to the concerns I have with gunnery. I don't care if they like my spec. I care that they can treat my concerns as valid as their own.

FYI, if you don't want to be summarily dismissed out of hand, maybe you shouldn't open with "I don't understand why people don't like assault, I think you guys just don't know how to play it". For one you're insulting all of us with no grounding in reality since you don't know the extent to which people do or don't play Assault. It also shows how little you are a part of what little community we have here since Gyro has been a huge proponent of assault for awhile. He's just also aware of its weaknesses vs gunnery's strengths. You dismissed him, and everyone else who has played assault, out of hand in your first post in this thread, so if you don't think any of us should be your rep that's fine because I wouldn't want you to be our rep either. Not because you may or may not know what you're talking about (FYI a full power Gunnery Commando has 22.6% ranged crit, not 19% without most of the aim datacrons), but because you are so immediately dismissive of anyone whose opinion isn't your own.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

LordKantner's Avatar


LordKantner
07.17.2013 , 03:43 PM | #96
My arguments were saying that assault spec can be just as equal, yes. And yes I am saying that its an issue with the player and not the game. This of course was not meant to offend anyone, and I'm sorry if it did. But I know this spec works, and it seems a bit condescending to throw the blame on the developers. I'm not being naive in what I say, I used to think AS was always terrible and would never be good. But after seeing how a vanguard can get a HiB out every 6 seconds, my mind was absolutely blown when I was able to apply such a simple rotation to a commando. My mind was blown even more when I applied this to raid content and was able to be doing just as well as gunnery .

Do not take my persistence in this as an insult to you, but rather that it just takes a different approach for this spec than gunnery would. Most specs in this game are either easy to learn hard to master OR. Rotation oriented

Quote: Originally Posted by ArchangelLBC View Post
To me a representative needs to be able to understand the concerns of people who don't already agree with them and be able to adequately represent those concerns to the devs.
This is exactly why I brought this up, I feel assault isn't being represented well. Thats the reason for all of this.
Severity Gaming
Kantner - Commando AS / Kingslaya - Mercenary Pyro
Commando - Assault Specialist 2.6 PvE Guide
Gunship Record Holder For Top Kills In GSF

ArchangelLBC's Avatar


ArchangelLBC
07.17.2013 , 04:33 PM | #97
Honestly, so far I'd think the most underrepresented spec would probably be CM. Most DPS commandos have at least tried assault at one point or another. I personally think the spec is broken, based purely on the fact that the top tier skill is so bad you're better off not taking it and that IS the dev's fault and they SHOULD fix it.

I also feel the assault spec is very well represented by Gyro, which is one of the reasons I nominated him as he has a very firm grasp of both DPS specs and at least a working knowledge of CM.
In update 2.9 the game will simply uninstall itself for you.

-Wnd

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
07.17.2013 , 05:58 PM | #98
Quote: Originally Posted by LordKantner View Post

This is exactly why I brought this up, I feel assault isn't being represented well. Thats the reason for all of this.
which is an incredibly wrong assumption.

assault is a priority for just about everyone, because it is overshadowed by gunnery in PvP. assault is fine for regs, but in RWZ it has no place. i, and others, would like to change that.

and again, this is not the place for such discussion. if you feel that assault is underrepresented, make another thread about it.
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

acguitarplayer's Avatar


acguitarplayer
07.25.2013 , 11:15 AM | #99
I vote for CashogyReborn

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
07.25.2013 , 11:36 AM | #100
Quote: Originally Posted by acguitarplayer View Post
I vote for CashogyReborn
thanks!

go here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=665184
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads