all of wich have other viable specs.

I would really like to get away from the whole 1.7 notion that you either play assault/pyro or you don't play trooper

Honestly all three trees need to be viable in their own respective ways.(there are such things as tank vanguards, amd they would like some attention)

Assault/pyro really needs to be converted into a full dot spec, the whole 1.7 thing where it was both a huge burst spec and had hard hitting dots was a bit much. Assault should be dots and tactics ought to be the burst spec.

I would really like to get away from the whole 1.7 notion that you either play assault/pyro or you don't play trooper

 

Honestly all three trees need to be viable in their own respective ways.(there are such things as tank vanguards, amd they would like some attention)

 

Assault/pyro really needs to be converted into a full dot spec, the whole 1.7 thing where it was both a huge burst spec and had hard hitting dots was a bit much. Assault should be dots and tactics ought to be the burst spec.

that's how it should be ofc.. but i doubt they'd even consider fixing all 3 specs (but i'd prefer the burst on assault because i cant stand the fugly animations in tactics)

Wrong - We're talking about PvP here. This wall of text is useless. Madness/Balance takes perfect play and setup to achieve sub par to "just okay" damage in it's current state.

...which goes to show you've never really built, played the spec in PvP.

Obviously, in PvP, this never happens. And, by the way, the reference to your signature screams elitism. You think it allows you to discount any opinion but your own? You don't know me.

*shrug* Maybe not to you. Happens to me all the time. Truth? Struggled with the spec for the first few months. Took a helluva lot of time to finally come up with a tactic and positioning that suits the class. Immediately noticed the spec was much harder to play with than the tanky one or the rogue-like one, since it only operates well under a 0-mistake policy. But "harder" means just more challenge in PvP. People who walk away from that challenge basically waiver their right to comment about how a spec plays out.

What allows me to discount your opinion is that with both Assault Vanguards and Balance Shadows, I have reasonable success with it and more than enjoy it enough to say that its effective at the right hands. The irony being that my "hands" are mediocre at best, when compared to some of the much better players around.

So if a mediocre guy like me does well with it, what does that make the rest of the people here?

The fact is, PTs now do less damage compared to other classes; and are squishy for an "in your face," melee-ish class, with no "notable" defensive cooldowns.

The fact is the supposed playstyle you people hold with your Pyro and Assault spec, is something that befits like SWTOR 1.2 or something. I wouldn't know for sure since I haven't seen any videos or something, but seeing how the enemies I play against, or teammates I play with usually utterly PHAIL in managing their Vanguards or PTs, I can take a good guess.

They basically charge in with guns and rockets blazing as if it was version 1.2 or 1.3, fire off a few rounds with impressive burst at first, and then quickly become targets of focus fire since all that flames and zazz is like a big, "oooh kill me first" sign. That used to work way back when Pyros would melt anyone's HP down to less than 50% in the first 10 seconds of engagement, but nope, not now... and still hordes of people play it that way.

The fact that you dismiss just how effective Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins can be strengthens that suspicion, as it is more or less telling that the people here aren't too keen with the SKIRMISHER style of game play.

Learn to dance. It helps.

It takes more effort for a good team to keep PTs alive with no reward. This is why they have been shelved.

No amount of team can save someone when that someone simply sucks. Truth. Harsh, but.

all of wich have other viable specs.

Tank vanguard isn't bad. It isn't great, but it isn't bad. Tactics spec is actually viable.

Vanguards wants to be OP again like a infiltration shadows now? "/boohoo emote" http://www.picshare.ru/view/2515369/

Only 1 can be OP! Oh wait i forgot about guardian focus tree? Okay 2.

Vanguards/pt and focus guardians were OP only before 1.2. After nerf 30 m stun and 30 m flamethrower they are no more OP.

Focus guardians weaks compared with maras, sins and snipers, and always were. After 2.0 good merc can kill focus guardian too.

Now dps vanguards, dps scoundrels are weakest classes in game; dps guardians not bad but probably slightly worse than snipers, sins, maras and probably compared with mercs and sorcs.

Another wall of text. So you're going with "l2p"? lmao I'm very glad for you that you've found a spec/class you like. Don't expect to get invited to my rated team with a pyro PT, or a madness sin.

...which goes to show you've never really built, played the spec in PvP.

*shrug* Maybe not to you. Happens to me all the time. Truth? Struggled with the spec for the first few months. Took a helluva lot of time to finally come up with a tactic and positioning that suits the class. Immediately noticed the spec was much harder to play with than the tanky one or the rogue-like one, since it only operates well under a 0-mistake policy. But "harder" means just more challenge in PvP. People who walk away from that challenge basically waiver their right to comment about how a spec plays out.

 

What allows me to discount your opinion is that with both Assault Vanguards and Balance Shadows, I have reasonable success with it and more than enjoy it enough to say that its effective at the right hands. The irony being that my "hands" are mediocre at best, when compared to some of the much better players around.

 

So if a mediocre guy like me does well with it, what does that make the rest of the people here?

 

The fact is the supposed playstyle you people hold with your Pyro and Assault spec, is something that befits like SWTOR 1.2 or something. I wouldn't know for sure since I haven't seen any videos or something, but seeing how the enemies I play against, or teammates I play with usually utterly PHAIL in managing their Vanguards or PTs, I can take a good guess.

 

They basically charge in with guns and rockets blazing as if it was version 1.2 or 1.3, fire off a few rounds with impressive burst at first, and then quickly become targets of focus fire since all that flames and zazz is like a big, "oooh kill me first" sign. That used to work way back when Pyros would melt anyone's HP down to less than 50% in the first 10 seconds of engagement, but nope, not now... and still hordes of people play it that way.

 

The fact that you dismiss just how effective Balance/Madness Shadow/Sins can be strengthens that suspicion, as it is more or less telling that the people here aren't too keen with the SKIRMISHER style of game play.

 

Learn to dance. It helps.

 

No amount of team can save someone when that someone simply sucks. Truth. Harsh, but.

Really?

They NOW have burst which assault had pre-2.0 and NOW have the mobility which assault didn't have pre-2.0. Get it?

And how exactly would you make a spec reliant on cleanseable dot viable in pvp. By turning it into something like df/lethality? No, thank you. The class needs an execute.

Finally, to whoever believes that archetypes should have one tree devoted to pvp dps and another to pve. Hurt yourself, badly.

They NOW have burst which assault had pre-2.0 and NOW have the mobility which assault didn't have pre-2.0. Get it?

I don't understand how a class like PT which all of its core abilities are instant has less mobility than a class which relies on casted abilities.

Yes merc has burst now and after a year of riding the pine is now viable.

I don't understand how a class like PT which all of its core abilities are instant has less mobility than a class which relies on casted abilities.

 

Yes merc has burst now and after a year of riding the pine is now viable.

i think he means "escapes". the punt roots. electro net. only 1 grav to apply armor debuff = shoot, relocate, possibly fire an hib on the run, continue roto. nowhere near as mobile as a pt though. that's more laughable than calling PTs ranged.

Watchman spec is weaker than assault. You statement about "no other class depend so much on healer + guard" is false. Pyro PT is not the worst spec for a class by a long shot. Watchman spec, assault spec commando, balance spec jedi shadow, and vigilance are all worse specs than pyro PT.

While I do agree that there are classes worse than pyro PT in PvP, I highly disagree that annihilation marauder is one of them. It has much better sustained damage potential, and high suriviability.

Again, if tree x in class y is beyond terrible, and pyro PT is ahead of that does not mean pyro PT is fine.

Pyro / Assault - Broke. Glass Cannon without the Cannon. A lot of suggestions to fix, but at the top of the list is to Fix TD / Plastique. Worthless ability that needs to be made to a 10m AOE if you want to keep the rest as-is. Blast Surge 100% proccing CGC is a start - Sticky and Mortar should also proc.

Aside from Incendiary, FT and Pulse Cannon should have their own independent Dot they apply for 12-15 sec, roughly the CD of FT / Pulse. I'm freaking shooing someone WITH LIQUID FIRE. They should be ON FIRE.

Lastly, should be a talent that significantly buffs HiB / Rail based on the number of your dots on the target. If you have CGC / TD Dot / Incindiary / FT Dot, all four dots up, Rail should hit like a truck. Great way to balance the class and also work off of the Dot mechanic.

Tactics / AP - Works in the right hands, decent utility with harpoon / taunts / AOE stun. On the side of below average though due to lack of real damage compared to similar classes (Jug / Guardian). Against a pug squad, can still do very well. Vs Organized or Ranked - good luck. A great buff would be to become CC immune while channeling a max charged Pulse Cannon / Flamethrower. It's already easy enough to avoid.

Tank - More or less fine. Make Blast Surge / Flame Sweep 100% proc Ion Cell for giggles. Make Harpoon able to also target allies.

Tactics / AP - Works in the right hands, decent utility with harpoon / taunts / AOE stun. On the side of below average though due to lack of real damage compared to similar classes (Jug / Guardian). Against a pug squad, can still do very well. Vs Organized or Ranked - good luck. A great buff would be to become CC immune while channeling a max charged Pulse Cannon / Flamethrower. It's already easy enough to avoid.

 

Tank - More or less fine. Make Blast Surge / Flame Sweep 100% proc Ion Cell for giggles. Make Harpoon able to also target allies.

I'm going to have to stop you at the red bolded part. sir. you need to come with me.

BW, bring him to the "interrogation room" and beat some sense into him. fool. thinks other classes should have a sniper's skill? doesn't he know anything about how things work 'round here?

AP/Tactics is very schizo. I know I'm repeating myself, but you basically need to gut in order to use rail, but the whole point of rail is to follow-up after rocket punch. well...that's a 3 gcd chain to initiate an attack that has almost zero synergy (3% gut) with the rest of the spec's abilities. I've only started playing this again in 2.0, but I did run tactics at launch.

Wasn't immolate a dot? I can't remember. it's been so long. It would make more sense for that to be a dot as it builds stacks for flamethrower and dots for rail. voila: synergy.

also, instead of serrated blades (15% better gut), how about we just keep gut as out SLOW abil. and use that extra point to do something along the lines of the aforementioned entrench. or rebuff flame burst?

I don't like blood tracker (3% for 2 talent points is lame and basically turns a 10m spec into a 4m). incidentally, gut gets cleansed almost immediately. I think that's because it has a very distinctive sound that cues mercs/ops to when to cleanse. so it really is only good for exposing the target to rail. how about attaching this effect to the immolate dot from my first wish list?

combat tech set bonus: the longer duration for carbonize makes sense with the spec's better survivability and control, and it works well for tanks who want to wear dps gear also. but buffing rocket punch for the 4pcs bonus is lame. it's just a setup abil in this spec., but I'm sure the tanks like it.

the spec doesn't need a major overhaul. I just think its abils need to work together more. as things stand now, it's exceptionally easy to prevent a fully buffed flamethrower, even when hydrolic override is active.

bw, bring him to the "interrogation room"

don't electro dart me bro, don't electro dart me!!!!!

Tank vanguard isn't bad. It isn't great, but it isn't bad. Tactics spec is actually viable.

Tank vanguard is a guardian tank without the utility or cooldowns

Tactics is viable about as viable as healing mando's, it lacks burst and its dot isn't even that effective

Tank vanguard is a guardian tank without the utility or cooldowns

Tactics is viable about as viable as healing mando's, it lacks burst and its dot isn't even that effective

combat medic mandos are FAR more relevant than tactics vgs. the only real *problem* with mando heals is that the other two classes have a considerably higher ceiling/throughput. but a mando with proper peels and guards is going to remain effective in regs or rateds. tactics, however, is an utterly wasted dps spot for competitive rated. it's fun in regs and kick ball though.

i think he means "escapes". the punt roots. electro net. only 1 grav to apply armor debuff = shoot, relocate, possibly fire an hib on the run, continue roto. nowhere near as mobile as a pt though. that's more laughable than calling PTs ranged.

No? I mean hydraulic overrides and 2 instant attacks with a longish but really good cooldown. Assault has it too now, but only for 6 seconds and the dps, she is not there. Or a rather offensive looking snare named electronet. The rockets are lolsome, though. At long *********** last, gunnery has mobility which is as good as that of assault now and better than pre 2.0 and being ranged you will pardon my not giving a **** that its attacks have cast times. The irony though is that dps mercs remain the one class with which I have the least issues on my vanguard.

PS. One more try. I define mobility as the ability to move unhindered to or from target and deliver dps in a reasonably uninterrupted manner.

No? I mean hydraulic overrides and 2 instant attacks with a longish but really good cooldown. Assault has it too now, but only for 6 seconds and the dps, she is not there. Or a rather offensive looking snare named electronet. The rockets are lolsome, though. At long *********** last, gunnery has mobility which is as good as that of assault now and better than pre 2.0 and being ranged you will pardon my not giving a **** that its attacks have cast times. The irony though is that dps mercs remain the one class with which I have the least issues on my vanguard.

 

PS. One more try. I define mobility as the ability to move unhindered to or from target and deliver dps in a reasonably uninterrupted manner.

ok. you lost me. you're jumping around specs and classes?

commandos: assault is still more mobile than gunnery. but gunnery has the necessary burst and is quick enough, with its dcd toolbox, to get stuff off. not like a sniper but e-net is a worthwhile utility.

pt: always have been mobile. all instants.

Haha, I saw a BW post and almost cried with joy.

 

Then I read it and was like

Rofl, the yellow part was only reason I even looked at this thread.

No? I mean hydraulic overrides and 2 instant attacks with a longish but really good cooldown. Assault has it too now, but only for 6 seconds and the dps, she is not there. Or a rather offensive looking snare named electronet. The rockets are lolsome, though. At long *********** last, gunnery has mobility which is as good as that of assault now and better than pre 2.0 and being ranged you will pardon my not giving a **** that its attacks have cast times. The irony though is that dps mercs remain the one class with which I have the least issues on my vanguard.

 

PS. One more try. I define mobility as the ability to move unhindered to or from target and deliver dps in a reasonably uninterrupted manner.

Man I don't think you really have a clue but I will go with it. HO is great but my arsenal mercs main rotation consists of more casted and channeled abilities than that of a PT. To argue against this seems lulz. Though with power surge yeah ok. But when you have a spec that revolves around a casted ability (well pyro relies also on power shot) I just cant take these posts cereal.

Vanguard/Powertech was the Fotm class for about a Year, and now it is just fine (maybe they nerfed it a little too much). Overall I think balance is quite good and never was better.

No it wasn't. At no time was Vanguard/Powertech the best overall class. It was an easy class to play that you didn't have to be a good player to contribute. It was good in the fact it was the only class that was great against guard swaps since it double dotted (extra 25% damage overall) when someone has guard up on your target.

Man I don't think you really have a clue but I will go with it. HO is great but my arsenal mercs main rotation consists of more casted and channeled abilities than that of a PT. To argue against this seems lulz. Though with power surge yeah ok. But when you have a spec that revolves around a casted ability (well pyro relies also on power shot) I just cant take these posts cereal.

Your arsenal merc his cooldowns being up and you having a clue (hypothetically) is untouchable by a single melee while being free to zoom around and dps in self-defense. If no one is going for you, you dont really need mobility which with the eliminator set bonus is 20 seconds away.

Your arsenal merc his cooldowns being up and you having a clue (hypothetically) is untouchable by a single melee while being free to zoom around and dps in self-defense. If no one is going for you, you dont really need mobility which with the eliminator set bonus is 20 seconds away.

hmm. I've been killed by a ton of mandos while on my melee troopers/bh, but never even remotely close to death in a 1v1.

Your arsenal merc his cooldowns being up and you having a clue (hypothetically) is untouchable by a single melee while being free to zoom around and dps in self-defense. If no one is going for you, you dont really need mobility which with the eliminator set bonus is 20 seconds away.

Yeah if your CD's are up. If you net a melee 30m out he may as well /sit and await deaths sweet release. For you to stand a chance against them otherwise you need to have Power Surge/Tech Override up, have some handy LoS objects to hump and hopefully get some good crits.

Them being stupid also helps.