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Stolen Idea- Preemptive questioning

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Scoundrel / Operative
Stolen Idea- Preemptive questioning

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.10.2013 , 05:55 PM | #1
Saw Paowee do this and figured it'd be good for the board since we have so few. Regardless of who gets the Class Representative they are going to need a thread for people to give their opinions and list their complaints. Why not get started now?

Operative boards are rather slow so let's see what people want now rather than be short questions when it matters.


I'll try and edit in people's questions when they're posted. This are things people have posted regardless of my personal opinions and if I agree/disagree with them. Due to nature of posts and to add votes I'll be shortening them.

PVE
-STEALTH DETECT: It destroys Concealment and leaves them unable to hidden strike. MiralukaJedi
-DOTS: For Lethality it is tricky to distinguish your dots from somebody elses. In addition two or more lethality hinder each other by sucking up weakening blasts that could be used for Cull. In addition, Operative's DoTs make CC difficult since they can only talent to not break their own CC. Gearedmonkey
-BACKSTAB: For weird mobs or orbs it can be hard to tell what part is the back. 360 backstab or a marker would be nice. Carlenux


PVP
-DEFENSIVE ABILITIES: Lack of defensive cooldowns. Lack of an AoE reduction talent. Azarai Syberduh

-HIDDEN STRIKE: Concealment heavily relies on hidden strike, but it can only be used every 90secs max. If detected or knocked out of stealth, the talent is useless. Azarai
===(Suggested changes: Give Hidden Strike a 100% crit chance or allow it to be used out of stealth or give Operatives more ways to enter stealth)

-ENERGY/PROLONGED COMBAT: Concealment still suffers a few energy issues and lacks the tools to finish off a target. In order to kill their opponent, Concealment has to blow all its energy. Azarai

-SEVER TENDON: Why is there a 30% damage increase to Sever Tendon? Is that a joke? Azarai

-PVP SET BONUS: 1 second dodge and 5 energy are not helpful. Increased critical chance on backstab like the PVE would be nice. Azarai



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http://www.swtor.com/community/showp...65&postcount=7
This post contains a bunch of compiled issues from various people in another thread.

Azarai's Avatar


Azarai
07.10.2013 , 09:31 PM | #2
Couple things for concealment operative that definitely needs to be addressed:

1. Defensive CD's. We have none. Our probe can take one decent hit (not even a full smash) and then it's game over. Besides Middle tree Juggs, we also are lacking in an AOE reduction talent that a melee character absolutely has to have in order to survive in the current meta.

2. Our reliance on stealth to do our main hardest hitting attack needs to be addressed. Either Hidden Strike needs to go back to an auto crit or the amount of time and how we go back into stealth needs to change. Even if we down our target a single dot/herp-derp AOE/even a taunt will keep us from re-entering unless we blow our 1.5 minute combat cloak which shouldn't have to be done. A direct attack from an enemy should be the only reason why we can't re-enter stealth OR Hidden Strike needs to be usable outside of stealth (of course without the knockdown ability if used outside of stealth).

3. Energy management is still meh especially if caught in a protracted fight. The loss of our self heal through the re-vamping of stim boost is actually quite missed. Sorry but the useless talent to still have the small rolling HoT every 2 minutes is just a waste of talent points. Some sort of finisher added to our talents would go a long way because at this point we have to save explosive probe to help get that last 30% off a target, and if they survive we are definitely SOL and running real low on energy by that time. Maybe revamp Hidden Strike to also count as our execute ability on a low health enemy (thus actually making it usable outside of stealth) would give us the tools we need to finally be somewhat competent in a more competitive setting because our inability to finish a target absolutely kills us.

4. 30% surge talent for sever tendon? Really? Please replace this with either backstab/shiv/lacerate and possibly lower the damage if it makes them become too hard hitting with the talent.

5. Our PvP set bonus is garbage. Please give us the PvE bonus of 15% extra crit chance on backstab, it's an absolute necessity for PvP. I don't care which we get rid of, the increase in dodge (for 1 sec which is laughable) or the extra 5 energy which is also negligible at best.

These are just some of the things I would like to see addressed for concealment and I'm sure some of my fellow op's will have good if not better ideas to add.
Lazy - Concealment Op
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MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.10.2013 , 10:16 PM | #3
Quote: Originally Posted by Azarai View Post
Couple things for concealment operative that definitely needs to be addressed:

1. Defensive CD's. We have none. Our probe can take one decent hit (not even a full smash) and then it's game over. Besides Middle tree Juggs, we also are lacking in an AOE reduction talent that a melee character absolutely has to have in order to survive in the current meta.

2. Our reliance on stealth to do our main hardest hitting attack needs to be addressed. Either Hidden Strike needs to go back to an auto crit or the amount of time and how we go back into stealth needs to change. Even if we down our target a single dot/herp-derp AOE/even a taunt will keep us from re-entering unless we blow our 1.5 minute combat cloak which shouldn't have to be done. A direct attack from an enemy should be the only reason why we can't re-enter stealth OR Hidden Strike needs to be usable outside of stealth (of course without the knockdown ability if used outside of stealth).

3. Energy management is still meh especially if caught in a protracted fight. The loss of our self heal through the re-vamping of stim boost is actually quite missed. Sorry but the useless talent to still have the small rolling HoT every 2 minutes is just a waste of talent points. Some sort of finisher added to our talents would go a long way because at this point we have to save explosive probe to help get that last 30% off a target, and if they survive we are definitely SOL and running real low on energy by that time. Maybe revamp Hidden Strike to also count as our execute ability on a low health enemy (thus actually making it usable outside of stealth) would give us the tools we need to finally be somewhat competent in a more competitive setting because our inability to finish a target absolutely kills us.

4. 30% surge talent for sever tendon? Really? Please replace this with either backstab/shiv/lacerate and possibly lower the damage if it makes them become too hard hitting with the talent.

5. Our PvP set bonus is garbage. Please give us the PvE bonus of 15% extra crit chance on backstab, it's an absolute necessity for PvP. I don't care which we get rid of, the increase in dodge (for 1 sec which is laughable) or the extra 5 energy which is also negligible at best.

These are just some of the things I would like to see addressed for concealment and I'm sure some of my fellow op's will have good if not better ideas to add.
PVE's actually got changed to 15% chance on shiv which hurts even more. But yeah, I fully agree with you on pretty much all of that.

Speaking of PVE, I want to toss out the well known and dreaded "Stealth detect". I expressed this in another thread, but for sake of combining things here Concealment is unable to fight a lot of bosses. It relies on hidden strike and so many bosses have a 30m stealth detect so that not only is the Operative kicked out of stealth, but he pulls and pisses off the tank. Fights thus require the Operative to not go in stealth (costing hidden strike) OR require them to start 30m away and run into combat.

MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.10.2013 , 10:25 PM | #4
Just noting here that I'm doing summaries in the post. If you notice something listed incorrectly feel free to comment.

If you support a listed claim, feel free to note support and I'll put an extra name beside it. This will allow us to see how many people care about specific problems and allow us to get a general consensus. While the class representative might not go based on the majority (depends on who is selected) it at least allows them to look briefly and go

"Hey, 5 people care about this issue and have added their name to it. Perhaps I should consider asking about that."

xhii's Avatar


xhii
07.11.2013 , 03:33 AM | #5
PVP set bonuses are very lackluster in general. Enforcer set is bad for DPS but decent for healers, Medic set bonus is bad for everyone, Sniper set bonus is interesting but situational. If they changed the Enforcer/DPS set bonus to be better for DPS (return it to the crit bonus it used to be, or something) many healers using it would cry foul, and if they changed the Medic set bonus to increase healing then the 2 people using it for I-don't-know-what would also be disappointed.
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Gearedmonkey's Avatar


Gearedmonkey
07.11.2013 , 10:13 AM | #6
Hey fellow Operatives! Been playing an op since launch and since 2.0 i have been doing a lot of PVE so just thought i would throw out some PVE concerns i have.

1) For Lethality dps it is very hard to distinguish your own dots from some other op/sniper who uses Corrosive Dart/Grenade.

2) Lethality issue again, when using weakening blast it will consume a charge if another op/sniper uses Corrosive Dart/Grenade. This becomes an issue because their dart/grenade may not be as strong as your own and it may prevent your from getting of more powerful cull/weakening blast combos.

3)Lethality again, When moving on to tougher raids like HM/NM S&V CC is required for passing the trash without wiping. If CC's go off then a Lethality op is worthless. the only thing the op can do is Corrosive Dart and cull. This wouldn't be much of a problem if there wasn't a skill that prevented op's dots from breaking CC, but this skill is only applies to the ops own CC and not those of the other group members.

Gondolindhrim's Avatar


Gondolindhrim
07.11.2013 , 11:18 AM | #7
We had a decent discussion about (mainly) Concealment recently, so I'm going to quote some relevant posts from that thread here. Spoiler tags as it'll be very long. Full thread here.

Spoiler

Spoiler


I have since then thought more about a proc that would allow Hidden Strike to be used out of stealth, and considering how few kills you typically see in ranked, I think the best and simplest solution would be to add a high-tier talent that gives Shiv a chance to proc out-of-stealth Hidden Strike.
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Syberduh's Avatar


Syberduh
07.11.2013 , 06:02 PM | #8
Yes dps ops absolutely need the 30% AOE damage mitigation and at least one more big buff to defensive cooldowns. One possibility is to simply lower the cooldown on shield probe and evasion. Either a flat x seconds off or an x seconds off each time you take damage. If BW wants to maintain the idea that dps ops are supposed to use their heals rather than mitigation for staying power, then ops need ways to proc faster/cheaper/instant/free heals. Lethality already has one way to do that but more would be nice. Tie the heal procs to melee attacks and either give dps ops a second cc break or higher defense when cc'd so that they can't just be stunned and annihilated.
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MiralukaJedi's Avatar


MiralukaJedi
07.12.2013 , 12:52 AM | #9
Quote: Originally Posted by Syberduh View Post
Yes dps ops absolutely need the 30% AOE damage mitigation and at least one more big buff to defensive cooldowns. One possibility is to simply lower the cooldown on shield probe and evasion. Either a flat x seconds off or an x seconds off each time you take damage. If BW wants to maintain the idea that dps ops are supposed to use their heals rather than mitigation for staying power, then ops need ways to proc faster/cheaper/instant/free heals. Lethality already has one way to do that but more would be nice. Tie the heal procs to melee attacks and either give dps ops a second cc break or higher defense when cc'd so that they can't just be stunned and annihilated.
Added your signature to the defensive cooldowns section since Operative defensive abilities seems to be what you're supporting. Let me know if mistaken.

On a side note it seems like we're all mostly in agreement.
-Defensive cooldowns are poor.

Syberduh's Avatar


Syberduh
07.12.2013 , 01:51 AM | #10
Yeah defensive cooldowns/mitigation are definitely what dps ops need most.
Ushanev Syberjugg<Illegal Test Kitchen>
Because chicks dig orange overcoats and guys who don't die.
And streams. Chicks totally dig streams. I mean, right guys? They do, right?