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Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Sniper
Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

Skotal's Avatar


Skotal
07.11.2013 , 05:18 PM | #31
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
I think you have your answer. The design philosophy is ranged DPS. Your fill a dps role in all, trees, and have a varying amount of utility in each for different things, to match different play styles.

I think this type of question is obscure, and doesn't really do much for the class in general at all. Use these questions to answer specific problems or questions with functionality or problems with x skill, not a blurb on what they want to achieve with the class, that was set before the game was released.
not quite. ranged dps is vague. how snipers dps between skill trees as well as mercs and sorcs varies considerably. There is a role in mind that defines what a sniper is and how it is supposed to be different from mercs and sorcs.

there are already many questions on the front page dealing with what is the intent behind different specs.

Angelsfluttersky #2 and Paowee #1 are asking about the changes made to leathality and the intention and use in raid environment vs hybrid specs. Evrydayimsmugglin #1 is a question about if snipers are to be reliant on other classes or is roll to be used as a major defense. Angelsfluttersky #3 is question about if engineering is designed for the mines to be the primary damage dealer. Angelsfluttersky #1 is also about the intent behind engineering and the limited viablity of plasma probe in mobile boss fights.

the answer will shape future questions and provide a basis for new discussion.

you could always pose your own question tho.
"Bad bad men. Women too, to be fair. Oh, yes. They make a fine sandwich, also, heh, heh, heh. But don't tell the Jedi Council I said that." -Jolee Bindo on the Sith

I joined the Sith for the sandwiches

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 05:25 PM | #32
Ok here you go Yndras how about this one? You seem to be good at wording... I *think* you have an idea of the point i'm trying to say, but made a comment that how that point was made is obscure and can lead to more questions than one definite answer (and we only get ONE pve answer from the combat team. That's why these questions have to be really *important* and carefully made). Well technically we have 1 PVE, 1 PVP, and 1 other question.

My question is:
The 2/18/23 hybrid iteration of X/X/36 Full Lethality is more popular right now in raids. This is due to multiple things like the 4-pc set bonus "requirement" of Full Lethality, Hybrid offering EP+CB energy regen and great DPS, and Hybrid seems to in general just do better single target DPS. Is Full Lethality on the list of things to look at to make it do equal if not more DPS than its Hybrid spec?
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.11.2013 , 05:44 PM | #33
Quote: Originally Posted by Skotal View Post
not quite. ranged dps is vague. how snipers dps between skill trees as well as mercs and sorcs varies considerably. There is a role in mind that defines what a sniper is and how it is supposed to be different from mercs and sorcs.
Ok, a lot of stuff in this post. Firstly the above quote.

The trees differ because they are different classes. It is good design to do this. The role in mind is ranged dps, and George has given you a run down on the overall feel for the class which is what you are after. That is NEVER going to change, it was decided upon during the initial design of the class. Hearing more of what George says about the class would be moot.



Angelsfluttersky #2 and Paowee #1 are asking about the changes made to lethality and the intention and use in raid environment vs hybrid specs.
Asking about the changes to lethality is fine. But we Need to be specific about what changes and leave enough room for elaboration on other aspects. Once you start referring to hybrid specs as a comparison you are creating grounds for confusion. How is the dev to know what hybrid spec you are referring too and what dps this spec is supposed to do. Too much supposition in this type of question.
Evrydayimsmugglin #1 is a question about if snipers are to be reliant on other classes or is roll to be used as a major defense.
All classes are designed to be reliant on each other. Its designed as a team game, hence the warzones. Roll is a defensive ability, I doubt it was designed to be the end all go to ability. It is bad to pose a question as tho it is designed to get a specific result. You want open ended questions that are specific enough to get you the information you want, but open ended enough so they have to elaborate on other mechanics as well.
Angelsfluttersky #3 is question about if engineering is designed for the mines to be the primary damage dealer. - Not a bad question. Perhaps you should be asking more about the mechanics and math behind the tree and what is supposed to be the main dps ability.
Angelsfluttersky #1 is also about the intent behind engineering and the limited viability of plasma probe in mobile boss fights. - This is supposition. To answer the question you have to agree that it has limited viability. Not a very good question.

the answer will shape future questions and provide a basis for new discussion.
If you ask the right question, the answer will answer your future questions.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 05:50 PM | #34
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
purple text above
So.... do you have any input on how to make some if not all those quoted questions better..? I edited mine if you can be bothered to check . Also you do get my point though right? About Full Lethality x/x/36 versus 3/18/23 Hybrid?. I am assuming you play both Saboteur/Dirty Fighting and Full Dirty Fighting on your Gunslinger (or sniper) in end-game PVE and have compared both specs in parsing.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.11.2013 , 06:02 PM | #35
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Ok here you go Yndras how about this one? You seem to be good at wording... I *think* you have an idea of the point i'm trying to say, but made a comment that how that point was made is obscure and can lead to more questions than one definite answer (and we only get ONE pve answer from the combat team. That's why these questions have to be really *important* and carefully made). Well technically we have 1 PVE, 1 PVP, and 1 other question.

My question is:
The 2/18/23 hybrid iteration of X/X/36 Full Lethality is more popular right now in raids. This is due to multiple things like the 4-pc set bonus "requirement" of Full Lethality, Hybrid offering EP+CB energy regen and great DPS, and Hybrid seems to in general just do better single target DPS. Is Full Lethality on the list of things to look at to make it do equal if not more DPS than its Hybrid spec?
Mmm, You need to be really careful here. You are forcing the dev to admit that one spec is doing more dps than the other... I don't think that is a fair question. What you are essentially asking for is a buff to X tree or if it is in the pipelines, and i think that detracts from the overall intention of the Q&A bioware have proposed.

You need to think about what it is that your concerned about, and from the above question it appears your concerned about a certain playstyle not doing as much dps as another.

Consider asking for more maths or inhouse numbers for your theorycrafting rather than if the devs "feel" there is a dps anomaly.

Something like - A specific hybrid spec appears to be quite popular at current due to higher dps. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support this theory in comparison to numbers for lethality snipers.

This way you address the question, is there a dps balance problem between these specs that you are aware off, and gives them some room to be more specific or provide numbers.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 06:12 PM | #36
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
Mmm, You need to be really careful here. You are forcing the dev to admit that one spec is doing more dps than the other... I don't think that is a fair question. What you are essentially asking for is a buff to X tree or if it is in the pipelines, and i think that detracts from the overall intention of the Q&A bioware have proposed.

You need to think about what it is that your concerned about, and from the above question it appears your concerned about a certain playstyle not doing as much dps as another.

Consider asking for more maths or inhouse numbers for your theorycrafting rather than if the devs "feel" there is a dps anomaly.

Something like - A specific hybrid spec appears to be quite popular at current due to higher dps. In your play tests, do you have any numbers that support this theory in comparison to numbers for lethality snipers.

This way you address the question, is there a dps balance problem between these specs that you are aware off, and gives them some room to be more specific or provide numbers.
Thanks these are great inputs imo!
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

Skotal's Avatar


Skotal
07.11.2013 , 07:01 PM | #37
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
Ok, a lot of stuff in this post. Firstly the above quote.
The trees differ because they are different classes. It is good design to do this. The role in mind is ranged dps, and George has given you a run down on the overall feel for the class which is what you are after. That is NEVER going to change, it was decided upon during the initial design of the class. Hearing more of what George says about the class would be moot.
Saying the trees are different because they are different classes is pointless. The question is what makes them different. Each performs a ranged dps role differently. And to be more specific sorcs and mercs can heal so the base concept of how a dps merc and sorc will work in both pvp and pve will be significantly different as to the degree each is expected to heal. Which is a question they can ask on their forums.

The overall feel post was before the game was live. Sniper Volley doesn’t work that way described anymore. Roll has created a 20sec instant move to create significant range on any melee. Spotter limits the area a stealth can approach a sniper. Evasion now removes all negative effects including dots. The addition of reflect to jugs as well as higher mobility moves in most classes in 2.0 has cut the effectiveness of legshot and alpha strike. And this is from a pvp perspective alone.

I should also point out the quote is not available on swtor.com or anywhere on the current forums. I had to go to a third party website that recorded and tracked all dev posts from current and previous versions of the forums.

This is a MMORPG classes often fluctuate on what their role is between expansions and significant content changes. Everything has a potential to be changed . Engineering has become a melee dps due to the use of mines. So even the idea that sniper will always be long ranged is inaccurate.

consider it to be a state of the union type speech. where we are, where we are going, how we will get there. You cant discount the usefulness of such a post compared to Sniper = ranged dps (sometimes) that is on the current class description.
"Bad bad men. Women too, to be fair. Oh, yes. They make a fine sandwich, also, heh, heh, heh. But don't tell the Jedi Council I said that." -Jolee Bindo on the Sith

I joined the Sith for the sandwiches

AngelFluttershy's Avatar


AngelFluttershy
07.12.2013 , 02:03 AM | #38
Just a reminder of what the community team and devs are looking for: Found Here
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying.
The questions can be as detailed or broad as we'd like them, there isn't a huge need to pose a question and strongly scrutinize each word it consists of at the moment. While we will reword/edit questions we choose for clarification, they don't need to the ultimate form of a near-perfect question. I'd also suggest saving that editing process once we've gotten a good grasp at 5-10 questions we'd like to vote on seeing being asked to the combat team, unless someone suggests a question that is too confusing for us to decipher.

In other words, I'd like to see more brainstorming and less finalizing since we have plenty of time before the three questions are presented to the community team to hand off to the combat team. One step at a time.

Magnusheart's Avatar


Magnusheart
07.12.2013 , 02:21 AM | #39
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I love to see you folks getting started on this already! Even without a representative you are all working together for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD!). It's cool to see, good work Snipers

-eric
Please tell me that is a Hot Fuzz movie Reference...

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MillionsKNives
07.12.2013 , 09:37 AM | #40
Quote: Originally Posted by Tatile View Post
(Was that seriously a Hot Fuzz reference? Did the US even get that movie?)
Yes we did, and it was amazing.