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Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Imperial Agent > Sniper
Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 03:41 PM | #21
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I love to see you folks getting started on this already! Even without a representative you are all working together for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD!). It's cool to see, good work Snipers

-eric
Thanks eric. We need more questions though (MORE QUESTIONS!) ...
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
07.11.2013 , 03:46 PM | #22
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Let me start To be honest this has been a lingering question / cliff-hanger on my mind since starting HM SnV on the PTS.

PVE - What is the role or purpose of Full Lethality right now?

I am coming from these viewpoints:
  • X/X/36 Lethality is less DPS compared to Marksmanship and Hybrid, single target on the training dummy.
  • I understand they can hit multiple targets with Corrosive Grenade which makes up 9-10% of their total damage done. This can result in "skewed" DPS numbers due to AoE DoT damage that is only going to get healed to full when e.g. a boss dies (DG Council, Cartel WL)
  • Lethality / Engineering, is a hybrid spec similar to full lethality, is more popular in raids (basing on torparse only..) and is doing more DPS.
  • A full tree should be buffed to make it more appealing than it's Hybrid counterpart (note: we do not have an MM hybrid build).

My question is:
... a bit long winded. Do you see Full Lethality in a good spot right now given the things mentioned above--- why is a Hybrid spec doing more DPS than the full tree it is imitating (is this intended and is anything going to be done about it)? Right now the only way for Full Lethality to do its HIGHEST DPS is if the player utilizes Corrosive Mines. That means playing somewhat like an Engineering Sniper where you run to the boss while dotting, casting Cull and SoS, then rolling away and leaving a poison cloud beneath the boss' feet. This may seem like a good way to distinguish players who want to make the MOST out of their class (i am fine with that. I work a little bit harder to do more DPS by using Covered Escape) BUT my issue here is that even if i do this, i am still coming out behind my Hybrid counterpart ~200 DPS short. What this tells me is that BW is fine with letting a full tree come short of it's Hybrid imitation.
Fantastic question. I'm trying to play exclusively as Dirty Fighting on my Slinger. You nailed my issue with the spec right on the head.

Tatile's Avatar


Tatile
07.11.2013 , 03:55 PM | #23
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I love to see you folks getting started on this already! Even without a representative you are all working together for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD!). It's cool to see, good work Snipers

-eric
(Was that seriously a Hot Fuzz reference? Did the US even get that movie?)

Also I need to see if there's a thread like this for Operatives. And then I need to actually learn more about my class that "Cunning is yes." >.>

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.11.2013 , 04:15 PM | #24
Quote: Originally Posted by Skotal View Post
The most important thing i would like to see answered completely and comprehensively is what is the design philosophy behind snipers.

Something that includes what is the current role of a sniper in pvp and pve broken down by spec. Not how they are currently used but how the development team wants them to be used. I have had several forum debates about what the current intent vs the original intent of what snipers are supposed to be.

Here is an old post from before the forum reset. dated 11/3/11 from Georg Zoeller




several new skills have been added and others have changed. does this concept still apply? I think a lengthy and in depth response will greatly improve discussion about balance between classes in pve and pvp. a response will also serve as a great introduction to the sniper forums and provide fast and dev approved responses to posts demanding nerfs for class defining concepts.

additionally responses on pvp vs pve set bonuses, if target dies when SoS is being channeled it does not proc FT, raid utility (can we get an ability to direct threat onto a tank), armor appearance (lets limit the number of antennas, headlights, giant flashing lights on the sniper rifle, ect) would love to see an art contest for new armor appearance.
I think you have your answer. The design philosophy is ranged DPS. Your fill a dps role in all, trees, and have a varying amount of utility in each for different things, to match different play styles.

I think this type of question is obscure, and doesn't really do much for the class in general at all. Use these questions to answer specific problems or questions with functionality or problems with x skill, not a blurb on what they want to achieve with the class, that was set before the game was released.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 04:22 PM | #25
Quote: Originally Posted by I_Sithed_MyPants View Post
Good question. I think they were assuming that being able to use Takedown on a target with any hp% would make up some single target dmg.
It would have... but Explosive Probe + Cluster Bombs is just too much damage. Plus you don't need 4-pc pve set bonus to use Hybrid at all. No we don't want a nerf to Engineering talents but maybe a buff to Full Lethality sustained single target DPS instead.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
07.11.2013 , 04:25 PM | #26
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
It would have... but Explosive Probe + Cluster Bombs is still too much damage. And no we don't want a nerf to Engineering talents but maybe a buff to Full Lethality sustained single target DPS instead.
What do you think about the talent "Lethal Takedown" increasing Cull's damage by 6% (a 3% increase) and reducing it's energy cost by 5 (so making it 20 energy)?

Too much?

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 04:38 PM | #27
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
What do you think about the talent "Lethal Takedown" increasing Cull's damage by 6% (a 3% increase) and reducing it's energy cost by 5 (so making it 20 energy)?

Too much?
I don't know tbh.. >_< That's up to them devs to figure out how to tweak their numbers to make Full Lethality a more popular choice in raids again.

Anyway anyone is free to post their questions. When the rep gets chosen at least we have this compilation to pass onto that person (reduced work load lol).
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.11.2013 , 04:58 PM | #28
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
Fantastic question. I'm trying to play exclusively as Dirty Fighting on my Slinger. You nailed my issue with the spec right on the head.
That is a terrible question. It is loaded and is trying to address more than one thing in multiple questions and suppositions.

It makes it almost impossible to answer the question properly as to do so, they need to agree with your suppositions in the first place.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

Yndras's Avatar


Yndras
07.11.2013 , 05:08 PM | #29
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
So it looks like the 3 questions can ask about

- Design philosophy = quality of life
- Math = buff.
e.g. assasin tank spikeyness or full pyro doing low sustained DPS in pve and low burst DPS (lol idk dont ask me) in pvp.

Maybe that's why we only have 3 questions for both PVE and PVP aspects. These questions are something that "they plan to put some serious work into." The questions should be "all-encompassing" that everyone can agree on which includes 1 PVP question, 1 PVE question and 1 other.
How did you get this from that post....

Math does not mean buff. It means the way they calculate certain abilities damage compared to other classes defenses as a good example.

Design philosophy is the idea behind the play styles the class offers. This will not give you an insight of where the class is heading..... its already there, but it will give you insight in to why certain skill choices were made in the first place, and the ideas behind the functionality of the class from concept to implementation.

Pretty much you should focus on trying to get more math type responses as this will help calculate the theory crafting needed for spec and gear optimisation.

Another good inquest would be into mechanics. An indepth account of how things are determined would do wonders for this class, especially given its defensive nature.

As in, how is the cover mechanic governed and what skills/damage types are exempt from the cover rule.
Layda, Sentinel - Hoarus, Scoundrel
Bandeeto, Mercenary

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 05:18 PM | #30
Quote: Originally Posted by Yndras View Post
How did you get this from that post....

Math does not mean buff. It means the way they calculate certain abilities damage compared to other classes defenses as a good example.

Design philosophy is the idea behind the play styles the class offers. This will not give you an insight of where the class is heading..... its already there, but it will give you insight in to why certain skill choices were made in the first place, and the ideas behind the functionality of the class from concept to implementation.

Pretty much you should focus on trying to get more math type responses as this will help calculate the theory crafting needed for spec and gear optimisation.

Another good inquest would be into mechanics. An indepth account of how things are determined would do wonders for this class, especially given its defensive nature.

As in, how is the cover mechanic governed and what skills/damage types are exempt from the cover rule.
Yes it is a bit obscure and leading into many other questions lol. I just wrote what came to mind off the top of my head. Definitely the question could use some better "refining".

Re: math, design philosophy, qol, etc, I guess you went in deeper into the meaning of the words. If it is going to confuse people then let's remove it! If you can think of a better way to word my first lethality question that would be great! in the meantime let me try to remake it to make it more precise and not ALL over the place
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
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