Please upgrade your browser for the best possible experience.

Chrome Firefox Internet Explorer
×

Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Classes > Gunslinger / Sniper
Regardless of who the class representative for this round will be
First BioWare Post First BioWare Post

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 10:55 AM | #11
Another question i have about the set-bonuses.......

Q: 2-pc PVE and 2-pc PVP is "BIS" for Marksman, Engineering and Hybrid. 4-pc PVE is a "requirement" for Lethality. Is this intended--- are the set bonus on the list of things to look at or will we continue to raid with gimped main stat on armorings to get the most DPS for 3 out of our 4 raid specs?

Even in KD gear:

Some math made by guildie sniper Roovin (others can do their own math to prove or disprove this)
Summary: So the difference here was 261 cunning. I realize that my method is nowhere near perfect; however, I think it gives a fairly good indication that the 2 piece PvP is going to be worth it for many more tiers of gear in the future.
Spoiler

Other math:
[insert KBN here ]
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 11:28 AM | #12
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
  • Why only Top 3? It should be 4 or 5! - Our original incarnation of the idea was actually a top 5. In talking with the Combat guys, they plan to put some serious work into these answers whenever possible. This could include design philosophy and math. Because of this, we decided we would rather have 3 really good answers than 5 less good ones.

    Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying. I wouldn't go too crazy stressing over unknowns as they are just that, unknown! We will absolutely make adjustments to how this works should we see that it is needed.

    -eric
We only have 3 questions for both PVE and PVP aspects. These questions are something that "they plan to put some serious work into." The questions should be "all-encompassing" that everyone can agree on which includes 1 PVP question, 1 PVE question and 1 other.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

AngelFluttershy's Avatar


AngelFluttershy
07.11.2013 , 01:03 PM | #13
Hey everybody, I play all Gunslinger specs proficiently and have a few questions about the class. Just to keep things consistent, I'll continue to use Sniper terms since we are in the Sniper boards after all. Thanks for starting this early Paowee! I'll try to split them as Paowee mentioned above into PvE, PvP, and an all-encompassing issue.

  1. PvE: Engineering spec is one of my favorite trees to run for all content. However, I find myself restricted to only using it in a handful of end-game encounters due to its poor effectiveness with bosses who move frequently or have tight burst phases close together (e.g. Dread Master Styrak). This is due to the spec's DPS dependence on its capstone ability, Plasma Probe. Without Plasma Probe landing the majority of its ticks, the only way to keep sustained Engineering DPS competitive with other Sniper specs is to utilize Scatter Bombs, a less than ideal technique as it requires an exploit to use efficiently on small to medium targets by rolling in place.

    I loved the changes you made to the spec for 2.0 but is there chance it could receive some additional alterations to make it more viable for all end-game content, or was it your intention for it be more limited in its end-game execution compared to other specs?

    I'm aware that certain encounters will cater to more specs than others, but the current end-game encounters that go against Engineering are far more hampering to them than encounters for other specs. Here are a few ideas I had to possibly help this issue:

    • Have Plasma Probe tick in place but also apply a physical type DOT on any enemy who had Plasma Probe initially casted onto them. DOT damage would not stack with Plasma Probe, it would just mimic the effect of Plasma Probe at its current point of time if the enemy were to step outside of Plasma Probe. For example: I cast Plasma Probe onto Thrasher, Thrasher remains in Plasma Probe for five seconds and has the DOT continually refreshed but does not do damage on top of Plasma Probe. Once Tharsher moves out of the Plasma Probe, the DOT then continues to tick down and mimic the remaining 13 seconds of Plasma Probe's duration on the ground.

      This would help to keep damage up without creating a large imbalance. Since its a physical DOT, it will be cleansable by all healers in PvP once the initial casted upon target moves out of Plasma Probe's radius. Plasma Probe will continue to damage a cleansed target if they move back into Plasma Probe's radius, but will not have the DOT re-applied/refreshed. Again, the DOT will only appear on targets who suffer the initial tick of Plasma Probe and not its subsequent. I know this DOT works a lot different than traditional DOT effects, but some version of what I attempted to describe would help Engineering DPS a lot.

    • As it stands, Overload Shot is more of a utility than a DPS gain for any spec. I like that it can refresh Electrified Railgun, but its base damage needs to be increased for Engineering spec, have it add two stacks of Electrified Railgun rather than one (a perk over using Snipe), or something. Calculated Pursuit is nice, but worthless as energy for this spec isn't too difficult and using Overload Shot is just a bandage during movement.

    • Could we also see a change to Interrogation Probe too? It's been largely ignored in terms of changes because it's in a good place, but I'd like to see an additional mechanic or benefit for using it further up the tree. I don't have any specifics in mind, but it just seems more beneficial to Hybrid (Lethality/Engineering) spec than full Engineering.

  2. PvP: Lethality is a very powerful tree and excellent for keeping pressure up on the enemies, however it's the easiest spec to counter as their abilities and rotation are very transparent. They also face a difficult fight in 1v1 circumstances if the enemy is able to avoid, interrupt, or prevent Cull from dealing its full damage. If Cull is fresh on CD and other utilities are unavailable, the Lethality Sniper is forced to retreat (something Corrosive Mine and Adhesive Corrosives make them very good at). In regular Warzones I usually don't have a problem keeping the enemy healers on their toes, but I could see this spec being more of a liability in ranked as its difficult to actually kill a target if your timing is off.

    Was it your intention for Lethality to be more of a support DPS spec from the shadows rather than one who can stand up to direct combat like Marksmanship and Engineering Snipers?

    If Lethality was supposed to take direct combat better, I'd like to see this spec have a few more instant offensive fallback abilities to utilize in-between Culls. Explosive Probe has a long cooldown and costs a ton of energy, Snipe and Ambush don't have the same bite or utilities as other specs, and Overload Shot isn't worth the energy in most cases. Playing Lethality is something I have a ton of fun with in some Warzones, when I'm not running around as an Engineer, but I'd like it to be not so easy to lock down offensively.

  3. Both: This one is tough for me as I feel the class is in a good place overall. The only concern that I have which includes PvE and PvP is the same questions others have already asked, what's the deal with Covered Escape? Did you intend for it to be a main DPS ability for Engineering spec? Are you aware of and prepared to comment on the roll-in-place exploit? Did you intend for it to be used as a key defensive ability in end-game PvE? Are you going to kill my precious baby by decreasing its effectiveness or increasing the cooldown? I know that's more than one question, but I'd like to see clarification on the intention of the Covered Escape ability and the design teams thoughts prior to and after implementing it in 2.0.

Thanks for your hard work Community Team in working towards improving communication between players and class designers. Also, thank you class designers for working with the Community Team to make this possible. Again, thanks Paowee for starting this off early!

EDIT: Due to how long my post is, I singled out my questions for clarity with the exception of number three as the majority of the paragraph is questions rather than suggestions/commentary.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 01:17 PM | #14
Quote: Originally Posted by namesaretough View Post
One of my big concerns for this tier of progression actually centers on the roll. Snipers and gunslingers get very limited defensive cooldowns, namely dodge (only works on limited attacks), a personal shield which absorbs a moderate amount of damage, and the long-cooldown raid-wide 30% DR shield (our primary raid utility which many groups save for scripted times, and is generally unavailable to use as a personal cooldown). With large spikes of damage becoming more common in NiM raids, especially TFB Kephess' jump, and to a lesser extent the grenades on titan 6, I sometimes get killed from full HP through the one reliable short-cooldown defensive CD I have, and have to figure out ways to avoid the damage using covered escape or a sage MUST bubble me to avoid me dying. If avoiding damage from a mechanic by rolling isn't intended and is due to be fixed, snipers and gunslingers will sometimes just get oneshot on fights without external cooldowns (i.e. a sage/sorc shield or a guardian/jugg tank AoE taunt). If it is intended, it should be a little more forgiving on the timing required, as the current dodge-roll has a very short window where it will successfully negate damage.

My question is, is this a bug that will be fixed (will gunslingers and snipers be reliant on having other classes in the raid to live through certain mechanics)? Or is it intended that such a difficult to use mechanic as rolling exactly 0.5-0.7 seconds before getting hit is a defensive cooldown we should master, making it the hardest defensive cooldown to use in the game?
I can't say for 16-m but in 8-man NiM TFB (havent done SnV yet), i did not find a mechanic that insta gibs me from 100%hp to 0% hp. I dodge Kephess' jump yes but the last time i failed to do it i had around 25% hp left (i think i was sorc bubbled as well).

EDIT:
I learned from DiLiH that you can roll ~exactly 1 second before whatever is going to hit you is going to hit you and that will make you immune to the damage. For NiM DG Lightning surge if you roll with 1 second left on the cast ~more often than not you will get no damage from it at all. Kind of a hit or miss and can be duplicated with more runs and practice. I like it and its kind of fun >_<

(imo)
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 01:43 PM | #15
Ok check out the front page. I think that is going to be the job of the class rep.. Compile questions, have everyone vote on 3 questions to be directed to Combat Team.

Before submission day comes, everyone has to "vote" and pick which PVE, PVP, and 1 other question they'd like a yellow poster to comment on.

Voting can be messy on the forums.... but we can easily do it by posting something like is:
Quote:
I vote for these:
Angels #3
Paowee #2
Bambula #1
Blue is a pve question, red is a pvp question, orange can relate to both. Anyone can submit their own pve and pvp questions. But in the end of the day the 3 questions to be submitted to the combat team should be something they can answer AND be: 1 PVP question, 1 PVE question, and 1 other..

I think this Class rep is really more of just a job instead of any sort of super power forum warrior representative. I for example, would not look forward to compiling questions from 100 people, each having at most 3 questions, and them trying to get everybody to vote on which 3 questions they want to submit, and those 3 questions have to include at least 1 pve and 1 pvp related question. And you have to manually count it as well.

=_= lol.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

Skotal's Avatar


Skotal
07.11.2013 , 01:55 PM | #16
The most important thing i would like to see answered completely and comprehensively is what is the design philosophy behind snipers.

Something that includes what is the current role of a sniper in pvp and pve broken down by spec. Not how they are currently used but how the development team wants them to be used. I have had several forum debates about what the current intent vs the original intent of what snipers are supposed to be.

Here is an old post from before the forum reset. dated 11/3/11 from Georg Zoeller


Quote:
It's much worse than you think.

No, a Sniper in cover cannot be charged with Force Leap. Yes, your warrior will have to move into melee range to engage the Sniper (or use ranged abilities like saber throw).

Marksman specced snipers specifically are a very defensive class.

You rarely see them leading the charge onto an objective, but they are masters of area denial. It's not just that you have to bridge 35 meters to them, with them getting the alpha strike. They got tools that will temporarily root you (Leg Shot), the force of impact from their Ambush ability pushes close range enemies back and their cover generator is fitted with the a pulse detonator that pushes attackers out of melee range (Cover Pulse). They can also become faster and faster the more they hit you (Sniper Volley). And did I mention that they can call down a powerful orbital satellite strike to protect the area around them?

You really don't want to charge these guys head on. Just like what I said about a Sage going into close range combat with a Melee DPS class, charging a good sniper head on alone will likely result in you dead on the ground and the Sniper mildly irritated.

How is it balanced? Carefully... We force you to be smart about moving into the area protected by these guys. If you're not smart about it and think you can charge into the fray, that's the wrong class to try that on. Their weakness is the fact that their most powerful abilities require them to be entirely static, that they have little ability to kite or establish range against a close range attacker.

You want to sneak up on them, distract them or eject them from cover (there's a very limited number of abilities that can do that), utilize environmental features to avoid line of sight, hit them with long range DOTs and wear them down, or gang up on them. If you manage to catch them close range without having lost too much of your health, they are in a lot of trouble and without Stealth generator or any kind of active escape ability, they are likely dead.
several new skills have been added and others have changed. does this concept still apply? I think a lengthy and in depth response will greatly improve discussion about balance between classes in pve and pvp. a response will also serve as a great introduction to the sniper forums and provide fast and dev approved responses to posts demanding nerfs for class defining concepts.

additionally responses on pvp vs pve set bonuses, if target dies when SoS is being channeled it does not proc FT, raid utility (can we get an ability to direct threat onto a tank), armor appearance (lets limit the number of antennas, headlights, giant flashing lights on the sniper rifle, ect) would love to see an art contest for new armor appearance.
"Bad bad men. Women too, to be fair. Oh, yes. They make a fine sandwich, also, heh, heh, heh. But don't tell the Jedi Council I said that." -Jolee Bindo on the Sith

I joined the Sith for the sandwiches

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 02:04 PM | #17
Skotal i've added it to the front page. What do you think? >_<
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

Skotal's Avatar


Skotal
07.11.2013 , 02:40 PM | #18
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
Skotal i've added it to the front page. What do you think? >_<
What is the current role of a sniper in pvp and pve broken down by spec. How does development team want these specs to be used?
Regarding: SoS -> target dies -> FT does not proc. Can this be fixed or do we just live with it?
Armor appearances (i am sorry skotal but that is not related to the Combat Team)


after reading what you wrote for my #1 and what i did maybe role isnt the best word to use. Maybe something along the lines of What is the concept behind the sniper in pvp and pve broken down by spec? but i guess people can just read my post if they want the details.

2# looks fine

3# well it did ask for questions but if you want stricktly combat here is one that i'd like answered. Why in the mm tree (what would be called the most turret like spec) does ballistic dampeners require the sniper to leave cover to re-apply?
"Bad bad men. Women too, to be fair. Oh, yes. They make a fine sandwich, also, heh, heh, heh. But don't tell the Jedi Council I said that." -Jolee Bindo on the Sith

I joined the Sith for the sandwiches

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.11.2013 , 03:16 PM | #19
Quote: Originally Posted by Skotal View Post
3# well it did ask for questions but if you want stricktly combat here is one that i'd like answered. Why in the mm tree (what would be called the most turret like spec) does ballistic dampeners require the sniper to leave cover to re-apply?
These questions are for the combat team.
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Up until the scheduled date, the repís job is to work to figure out what the top 3 issues or questions are for their Class. Once posted, we will begin working with the Combat Team to get an answer or comment to all 3 of those issues, regardless of what they are!
But then again it has the phrase "regardless of what they are!". lol. I honestly doubt the combat team will be able to answer a question re: armor appearances but what the hell let's just put it out there Edited your section
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.11.2013 , 03:30 PM | #20 This is the last staff post in this thread.  
I love to see you folks getting started on this already! Even without a representative you are all working together for the greater good (THE GREATER GOOD!). It's cool to see, good work Snipers

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
Follow us on Twitter @SWTOR | Like us on Facebook
[Contact Us] [Rules of Conduct] [F.A.Q.]