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Class Representatives Are Here!

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Class Representatives Are Here!
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AthielRosewood's Avatar


AthielRosewood
07.11.2013 , 08:08 AM | #101
Bioware has caved to a couple of posters with big mouths and even bigger opinions of themselves here on the forums. They throw hissy-fits, stomp their feet, and threaten to quit until they get their way. Then they're all smiles. My 18-month old niece is more mature than some of those being nominated as class representatives.

But here's the real issue that Bioware itself has pointed out in the past: only about 5% of the community uses the forums. So first off, since it was announced on the forums, only about 5% of the population may have seen it. They may inform some of their guildies in game and what-not by word-of-mouth, but at least everyone in the real world knows when election day is coming because all registered voters (anyone with a non-FTP account in this situation) are provided with notice.

Elections in the US and other countries are far from perfect, but imagine if your representative was elected with not even 5% voter turnout and received votes from 1-2% of the entire eligible voting population? Do they really represent us? The answer is no. Bioware is allowing a fraction of the community to select individuals that will conspire and act in concert to control discussion on classes that EVERYONE plays. Bioware has not made the decision to empower the players to have their voices heard, Instead, the sham elections will net us an oligarchy of the biggest complainers. Shame on you Bioware, and Eric Musco for not only letting this happen, but encouraging it. Maybe I should throw a tantrum until I get my way. I quit.

This is what the real community really asks of you:
Grow some balls. No really. Be prepared to actively defend your product and your game decisions, including class balance. We don't expect an answer to every question and a tweak to every class based on forum posts.

I do believe that you (Eric) and your community team go through the forums well and your level of responsiveness to the community has greatly improved over time (it's not perfect but it's getting better). I do believe that you, your team, and the development team have the ability to recognize the big issues from the small.

When players encounter real problems in game, especially with class balance, they tend to hit the forums. That is your cue. Find the large problems, address them. We're not asking you to make changes because of these large issues every time, simply explain to the community some of the reasoning behind the decision. We (the reasonable community) understand that the development team does not act arbitrarily. Let the discussion ensue. There will always be a few whiners, have the balls to face them, rather than hand them the keys.

We do not need the oligarchic middle men that you have proposed. The whole community has access through the forums. We should not have individual community members hijacking the process and deciding what questions get answered. That is Bioware's job and and it's time to step up to the plate and engage the community at large.

Long live the Resistance!

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.11.2013 , 09:01 AM | #102 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Good morning folks!

Just to try to hit some of the concerns you are having about the Class Reps...
  • Need PvE and PvP reps! - Like I said, this may be something we consider but since this whole idea is a new concept, I want to let it grow naturally. Let's see how the first round goes before we start expecting we will need to setup predetermined rules. I can assure you that we will recommend to the Reps, once chosen, that they try to make sure their questions are diverse across playstyle and spec. Also, it will be really obvious to us if they aren't!
  • Mirrored AC Representatives - The way it will work is that once the Reps are chosen, one of the mirrors will act as the Rep the first time and then it will rotate. For example, the Gunslinger Rep will submit the top 3 for July, the Sniper will then be the new Rep and will submit the next round of Top 3 in August or September.
  • Why only Top 3? It should be 4 or 5! - Our original incarnation of the idea was actually a top 5. In talking with the Combat guys, they plan to put some serious work into these answers whenever possible. This could include design philosophy and math. Because of this, we decided we would rather have 3 really good answers than 5 less good ones.

Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying. I wouldn't go too crazy stressing over unknowns as they are just that, unknown! We will absolutely make adjustments to how this works should we see that it is needed.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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Grimsblood's Avatar


Grimsblood
07.11.2013 , 09:02 AM | #103
Now that I have read through this, it concerns me. In effect, the representative is just a secretary that compiles the top 3 questions. The rep provides no feedback and there is no two way street for making a class better. The rep's "job" is the same of the Bioware Employee's that are supposed to be monitoring the forums and communicating with the Dev team.

here I originally liked this concept (at least the one I had assumed) I am now very concerned about this one. It leads me to questions about how much of the feedback we post during PTS was really relayed? Are bugs still in this game because no one on the Dev team knows (Even though we post about it)?

If the people who have the jobs of interacting and relaying information from the Community to the Dev team are not doing that job, why are they not being fired? Why does the community have to do their job for free? If they are too busy, why are more not hired? Why are we picking up the tab for free?
DPS is science. Healing is art. Tanking is strategy.
Hippolytà - Level 50 Sentinel - Grimsblood - Level 55 Sage
Saphyria - Level 55 Sniper - Fenrîr - Level 55 Gunslinger

MuratReis's Avatar


MuratReis
07.11.2013 , 09:53 AM | #104
Stupid idea, I think. 95% of the player base for my class has no clue on what they are doing. I'd rather see experts present questions that we can discuss and rank then questions being raised by the masses who don't know anything.
''Ralph McQuarrie is the gentle giant of the Star Wars Universe.'' George Lucas

AthielRosewood's Avatar


AthielRosewood
07.11.2013 , 09:55 AM | #105
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Good morning folks!

Just to try to hit some of the concerns you are having about the Class Reps...
  • Need PvE and PvP reps! - Like I said, this may be something we consider but since this whole idea is a new concept, I want to let it grow naturally. Let's see how the first round goes before we start expecting we will need to setup predetermined rules. I can assure you that we will recommend to the Reps, once chosen, that they try to make sure their questions are diverse across playstyle and spec. Also, it will be really obvious to us if they aren't!
  • Mirrored AC Representatives - The way it will work is that once the Reps are chosen, one of the mirrors will act as the Rep the first time and then it will rotate. For example, the Gunslinger Rep will submit the top 3 for July, the Sniper will then be the new Rep and will submit the next round of Top 3 in August or September.
  • Why only Top 3? It should be 4 or 5! - Our original incarnation of the idea was actually a top 5. In talking with the Combat guys, they plan to put some serious work into these answers whenever possible. This could include design philosophy and math. Because of this, we decided we would rather have 3 really good answers than 5 less good ones.

Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying. I wouldn't go too crazy stressing over unknowns as they are just that, unknown! We will absolutely make adjustments to how this works should we see that it is needed.

-eric

Do not make adjustments and let this idea "grow naturally", do your job. You are not creating a dialog with the community, you are making a dialog with certain individuals and, as Grimsblood stated, are outsourcing your own duties as community manager. Address the whole community, or none at all. You don't need to give in to the whims and tantrums of a tiny, loud minority.

If you don't think that the rambling egotists are going to seize control for themselves regardless of your rotation of reps then read post #17 in this thread. http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...=659773&page=2

That is not something that may happen, that is something that is going to happen. Do your homework next time, Eric.

islander's Avatar


islander
07.11.2013 , 09:58 AM | #106
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Good morning folks!

Just to try to hit some of the concerns you are having about the Class Reps...
  • Need PvE and PvP reps! - Like I said, this may be something we consider but since this whole idea is a new concept, I want to let it grow naturally. Let's see how the first round goes before we start expecting we will need to setup predetermined rules. I can assure you that we will recommend to the Reps, once chosen, that they try to make sure their questions are diverse across playstyle and spec. Also, it will be really obvious to us if they aren't!
  • Mirrored AC Representatives - The way it will work is that once the Reps are chosen, one of the mirrors will act as the Rep the first time and then it will rotate. For example, the Gunslinger Rep will submit the top 3 for July, the Sniper will then be the new Rep and will submit the next round of Top 3 in August or September.
  • Why only Top 3? It should be 4 or 5! - Our original incarnation of the idea was actually a top 5. In talking with the Combat guys, they plan to put some serious work into these answers whenever possible. This could include design philosophy and math. Because of this, we decided we would rather have 3 really good answers than 5 less good ones.

Just keep this in mind. The goal of this is simply to help create a dialog and interaction between the studio and the forums concerns about classes, class balance, etc. This is just a fun way to create the conversation and is something new we are trying. I wouldn't go too crazy stressing over unknowns as they are just that, unknown! We will absolutely make adjustments to how this works should we see that it is needed.

-eric
Eric, the problem with having PvE and PvP represented by one person is this: There's very, very few people in any class that actually EXCEL in both. Example, sniper forums, which is the one I care about as it's my main. Paowee is going to get the position. He's without question a top ranked, if not best, expert when it comes to knowing sniper PvE inside and out. All three specs. There's no one that knows more.

However....PvP? Not so much.

This is going to be a problem, and as usual, the PvP group will get hosed
Gìllies Erimosi, Imperial Deadeye
<Hex> Prophecy of the Five

Glower's Avatar


Glower
07.11.2013 , 10:00 AM | #107
As always...
Another very complicated system (bolster anyone? ) by Bioware.
SWTOR goes F2P: http://i.imgur.com/1962X.jpg
A: "They’d love to do that at some point, but technically very challenging and unlikely to happen in the near future." (c)
PvP FAQ, A: "We have no plans at this time" (c)

Glzmo's Avatar


Glzmo
07.11.2013 , 10:25 AM | #108
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
[LIST][*]Need PvE and PvP reps! - Like I said, this may be something we consider but since this whole idea is a new concept, I want to let it grow naturally. Let's see how the first round goes before we start expecting we will need to setup predetermined rules. I can assure you that we will recommend to the Reps, once chosen, that they try to make sure their questions are diverse across playstyle and spec. Also, it will be really obvious to us if they aren't!
Why did you ignore RP again?
Roleplay is an important playstyle in a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, and you people just keep ignoring it! Various classes have issues in roleplay as well, like their animations of rest abilities not lasting long enough to be viable for roleplay, lightsabers shutting off during RP combat, some skills and their overblown particle effects posing problems with immersion in an RP enviroment and more.
Yes, it may be nitpicking, but no mention of roleplay even though there were concerns about it is just very disheartening. I guess as a loyal subscriber from day one (plus early access), beta tester, etc. I should be used to it by now, since RP features like chat bubbles, sitting in chairs, etc. are still missing from the game despite having been promised over and over again to be in soon since launch. Still I'm just a very disappointed roleplayer, as our issues and wants always seem to be put on the backburner for virtually anything else. I've always been hopeful that things will change and that you will finally give us some love (that doesn't involve us having to be milked real money via cartel coins as the Appearance Designer kiosk does).

Pistols's Avatar


Pistols
07.11.2013 , 10:26 AM | #109
Quote: Originally Posted by Glzmo View Post
Why did you ignore RP again? Roleplay is an important playstyle in a Massively Multiplayer Online Roleplaying Game, and you people just keep ignoring it!
Because the topic is referring to "class feedback", which 100% of that takes place via PvP and PvE.

RP doesn't have "class issues", or at least what the team is trying to get dialogue on.

C'mon, at least be sensible.

EricMusco's Avatar


EricMusco
07.11.2013 , 10:50 AM | #110 Click here to go to the next staff post in this thread. Next  
Quote: Originally Posted by Grimsblood View Post
Now that I have read through this, it concerns me. In effect, the representative is just a secretary that compiles the top 3 questions. The rep provides no feedback and there is no two way street for making a class better. The rep's "job" is the same of the Bioware Employee's that are supposed to be monitoring the forums and communicating with the Dev team.

here I originally liked this concept (at least the one I had assumed) I am now very concerned about this one. It leads me to questions about how much of the feedback we post during PTS was really relayed? Are bugs still in this game because no one on the Dev team knows (Even though we post about it)?

If the people who have the jobs of interacting and relaying information from the Community to the Dev team are not doing that job, why are they not being fired? Why does the community have to do their job for free? If they are too busy, why are more not hired? Why are we picking up the tab for free?
This is certainly an interesting question to raise, and you are probably not alone in asking it so I thought I would answer it. Except the part about me being fired of course

There are two parts to your post I want to hit, first bugs being reported and not fixed. Amber could come into this thread and attest to just how vigilant we are about tracking bugs and passing them on to the development team. In fact, that is a large part of Amber's job on the team! Unfortunately, just passing a bug onto the dev folks doesn't guarantee it suddenly gets fixed. The devs have to juggle developing future content, all bug fixes, and many other tasks. Sometimes that one bug may just be a lower priority than something else that is being worked on, and this includes coming from PTS.

As for us as a team passing information on to the dev team to get answers, this is absolutely something we do. I work constantly to try to get answers to questions you guys have here on the forums. However, sometimes I am just unable to provide an answer which is why it may appear we are remaining quiet. The other issue, is that sometimes even when we provide answers, you guys will feel like we are ignoring the question you are trying to ask. Class Reps solve both of these problems.

First, this new initiative allowed me to get a "guarantee" of sorts from the combat folks that no matter what we throw at them, they will give you some sort of answer to that question. Like I said in the intro, this may not always be exactly what you want to hear, but it will be an answer. Secondly, we can't be answering the wrong questions since you the community get to choose them.

At the end of the day this is of course something that we could do as a Community team and should the Class Reps not work out as we hope, we will continue to work on getting you answers about Classes. However, in the meantime this new system allows us a cool new opportunity to work together and I hope you guys can see it as that.

-eric
Eric Musco | Community Manager
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