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Bioware please make weekly polls

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
Bioware please make weekly polls
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Kurin's Avatar


Kurin
07.09.2013 , 01:32 PM | #61
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Hey folks,

Thought this might be a good place to explain our reasoning on why you don't see a lot of polls from us on the forums. Some of you have already covered some of them but I thought it would be good to get some yellow text behind it.

I think the first and most important thing is that by us posting a poll, folks will assume that the winner is guaranteed to see action. If we say "What species would you like to see in SWTOR?" and Togruta wins, in your example. Everyone will assume we are definitely going to add Togruta to the game. Unfortunately, it just wouldn't work that way.

Another reason is that you have to realize how much of a minority of players actually use the forums. Without looking at the actual numbers and guessing from the top of my head, I would say less than 5% of our subscribers use the forums regularly. Keep in mind that even less than that % would even answer the poll. That is a pretty tiny group of folks to let make actionable decisions on, which is why we use a lot of facets of data (including the forums) to make decisions, and not them alone.

One time where we have used polls, like for the Party Jawa, is when we already have plans in place to implement all of the relevant choices. The Party Jawa, which won the poll (on the forums and on Facebook) was given to players for appreciation, while the other two were still available but placed in the market.

I am not saying you will never see polls from us again, but they are tricky as players tend to take them as a guarantee, as opposed to just a tool to gauge opinion.

Hopefully that makes sense!

-eric
Eric-

None of your explanations hold water for me. First, if only a small number of people read your forums, then why do you bother? Why are you even employed as a community manager, if you are only helping 5% of the player base? Seems like BW could put your salary to better use by killing your job and hiring another developer/designer. That would make 95% of the player base happier, with more content for their money.

Second, you've done a decent job of saying when something isn't a "guarantee". Like today's patch, that's coming out tomorrow. The forums will talk about it, of course. But I'd rather bad news, than no news.

And that's what you are saying. You 5% don't matter enough for us to ask your opinion, because the negative backlash isn't worth it. Ummmm...honestly, is that really the message you were hoping to send? I sure hope not.
<insert lots of characters here>- The Harbinger - Invictus guild.

Darth_Moonshadow's Avatar


Darth_Moonshadow
07.09.2013 , 01:34 PM | #62
Quote: Originally Posted by Mevan View Post
Why do people always have to resort to the "no you're just not getting what you want, everything is great!" line. It's really annoying and total BS. I know many people in-game who dislike the direction the game is taking and feel like their feedback falls on deaf ears, but according to all the EAware supporters we're "the minority". As for the backlash being the same; I think people get more angry about being ignored and given what they never asked for than they do when something has to be cancelled for a legit reason.

Unfortunately, EAware rarely gives a legit reason for giving up on requested features. Hood toggle, for example.
Yeah, I didn't say that was the current state of the game. I said that you feel like you're not being listened to because your desired feature isn't here now. I never said the game is fine. The only minority we know for certain is the forum minority. Your idea of "many people ingame" is also subjective. It could be ten people, it could be twenty. Now compared to the 50k estimated subscribers and who knows how many Preferred and Free Players, you may very well be a "minority". You could also just be the minority who's complaints or suggestions may coincide with the Majority. You can't really tell unless you polled every across the game, all day,every day, for some amount of years at every hour to catch any offliners or sporadic subscribers.

People's anger would still the same. Angry is angry. Either way, someone gets pissed and rants.
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post

And I love Darth Moonshadow's responses.
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Joesixxpack's Avatar


Joesixxpack
07.09.2013 , 01:36 PM | #63
Quote: Originally Posted by TUXs View Post
Social media allows anyone with any agenda to vote (see Worst Company in America as an example). By confining it to an in-game poll, at least you're limiting outside influence.
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MSchuyler's Avatar


MSchuyler
07.09.2013 , 01:37 PM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Ayelinna View Post
Thats what a poll is for, to see what the players want. I would assume that people who play the game and also use the forums are more active than people who dont care about anything and just play the game and never use the forums...

So basically we have no say in what goes in the game?
Ask what a bunch of elementary school children want for lunch, put ice cream on the list, and you'll get your poll answer. I'm sure it works for Junior High, too. Your assumption about forum members being more active is wrong. The data would suggest 5% of the players use the forums; the rest are out playing the game. In other words, active forum users spend LESS time playing the game. It would make far more sense for Bioware to measure game metrics to see how, in fact, players are interacting to get a sense of what they want.

To ask forum members what they want in a poll is statistically invalid just because the subset is not representative of the majority of players. The ONLY way to construct a statistically valid poll would be to randomly select from the entire universe of players (not just a select 5%) and measure their responses. It might make you feel good to see polls on here, but it would be statistically a worthless exercise. And, of course, it would set up expectations of what was to come that would be endless fodder for more ***** Threads. You'd just complain about the options in the poll. It's just so unfair that transgendered cross-dressing Jawas were not listed as an option. QQ

But you are correct in one sense. You actually have no say in what goes on in the game. That is true.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TUXs View. Social media allows anyone with any agenda to vote (see Worst Company in America as an example). By confining it to an in-game poll, at least you're limiting outside influence.
Ain't it the truth? But we're not talking about an "in-game" poll; we're talking about an "in-forum" poll, and that's a problem. Also, outside influence cannot be discounted. One example is parents who actually pay for the game. There are a lot of people here who use Daddy's credit card. I can almost guarantee you a poll asking of the sex scenes on here should be a little more explicit than a black screen would be met with enthusiasm (Look at the uproar for including same-sex romances as an example), but if Daddy (or Congress) got wind of that, SW would be history. There are a lot of balls for BW to juggle at once, and forum members think of themselves as a lot more important than they really are.

Mevan's Avatar


Mevan
07.09.2013 , 01:39 PM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by Darth_Moonshadow View Post
Yeah, I didn't say that was the current state of the game. I said that you feel like you're not being listened to because your desired feature isn't here now. I never said the game is fine. The only minority we know for certain is the forum minority. Your idea of "many people ingame" is also subjective. It could be ten people, it could be twenty. Now compared to the 50k estimated subscribers and who knows how many Preferred and Free Players, you may very well be a "minority". You could also just be the minority who's complaints or suggestions may coincide with the Majority. You can't really tell unless you polled every across the game, all day,every day, for some amount of years at every hour to catch any offliners or sporadic subscribers.

People's anger would still the same. Angry is angry. Either way, someone gets pissed and rants.
Well, even the less angry people I come across in-game say they don't like the new direction of the game. I don't pretend to believe I speak for everybody, but if I raise a point and say "people don't want" or whatever, it's from speaking to people in-game. I'm in a few different guilds atm, and I tend to watch general chat a lot of the time, so I get my information from there. That's about as close as you can get to hard data without a poll system at any rate.

Taratahi's Avatar


Taratahi
07.09.2013 , 01:43 PM | #66
Would it be easier to enter a subroutine into sending a poll link to all of the chars in the game( linked to one account) to the website and upon answering deleting the remaining messages on the other chars.

Or Setting up a poll message, inquiering to participate in a poll about subject 'x', those that decline are registered as neutral and the those that accept the poll can answer it accordingly.
The same thing like when we get the message to resub e.g. when ending our subscribtion and get the message.

And about the idea of harrasing people with polls, Bioware. Simply give people the option to select if they want to participate in polls yes or no, in a tab on our 'my account' on the website.

So that takes care of the amount of people responding to that issue.

Now, about the use of polls.

Eric. For you I have one remark. If you ask questions as: "What species would you like to see in SWTOR?", ofc people would like to see the winner pick come first. MMO's still need to learn that they need to give players a certain amount of transperancy what they have in the making for players, so they have an idea - based on the feedback they get from those announcements - of how it will be received by those players.
Give us polls about future projects... or priorities for content or whatever can be done. Whether we would like a new species or prefer a new planet or if we would like to get our guildships first

So you guys can serve us customers better. And wasn't that one of your remarks Eric? Or was it Bruce or Mr. Cody's remark? That they said that they were there for us and offer of the best service there is for 'their' customers...

I'd like to get some feedback from you guys on this frankly...

Skodan's Avatar


Skodan
07.09.2013 , 01:44 PM | #67
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
I think the first and most important thing is that by us posting a poll, folks will assume that the winner is guaranteed to see action. If we say "What species would you like to see in SWTOR?" and Togruta wins, in your example. Everyone will assume we are definitely going to add Togruta to the game. Unfortunately, it just wouldn't work that way.
so why not do polls that express people's opinions of things already in game? "fun" polls, not ones that would lead people to expect something in return, such as:

Favorite Role. dps (even with the longer queue times)
Favorite Faction to play. Empire
Favorite species to play. Human
Favorite class story. agent
Favorite pvp map. huttball
Favorite planet. dromund kaas
Favorite starter planet. hutta
Favorite flashpoint. boarding party
Favorite type of weapon to use. sniper rifle
Favorite empire companion. Dark Jaesa
Favorite republic companion. M1-4X
Favorite crew skill. Cybertech
Favorite spacecraft. Phantom
Favorite armor set. clandestine
Favorite color crystal. Mint green (though i dont have one yet)
Favorite alignment. Mix of neutral-dark

look at that, you do one of those each week, and i already planned the next 4 months for you guys
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Darth_Moonshadow's Avatar


Darth_Moonshadow
07.09.2013 , 01:57 PM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Mevan View Post
Well, even the less angry people I come across in-game say they don't like the new direction of the game. I don't pretend to believe I speak for everybody, but if I raise a point and say "people don't want" or whatever, it's from speaking to people in-game. I'm in a few different guilds atm, and I tend to watch general chat a lot of the time, so I get my information from there. That's about as close as you can get to hard data without a poll system at any rate.
Indeed and that's a very close way of data gathering. But remember, for all Bioware know, you're gathering data from one server. Which is why a Poll section works better.

We also need to take into account that ingame polling only works on the current population of the game. We need to figure out a way to get to the players who have already quit and players who haven't reached the legal age to play. That's another reason why I prefer a Social Media poll, despite TUX's logical reasoning against it. If Bioware makes a poll, it only appeals to the current population. If your friend quit the game a few months and during that time an ingame poll went through, they come back to find implemented features they might not like in the game. They'd feel like that because they weren't playing at the time, they missed out on getting their voice heard. So they would have to either stay obligated to keep playing in hopes that the next poll might include their desired feature on it or rely on third parties to keep them in the loop about when the poll comes around.

Now we could remedy that with setting a time and make an annual poll, like the actual Presidential elections, and like the months leading up to it, plaster the announcements all over sites. But as TUX pointed out, we could garner the attention of biased pollers and get skewed results.

Bioware needs to make a way to get the player's feedback and opinions, that does not exclude anyone in the process. It has to be well known enough so that the old players and potential players can see what could be coming, but selective enough so the results are not messed with.

Quote: Originally Posted by Skodan View Post
so why not do polls that express people's opinions of things already in game? "fun" polls, not ones that would lead people to expect something in return, such as:

Favorite Role. dps (even with the longer queue times)
Favorite Faction to play. Empire
Favorite species to play. Human
Favorite class story. agent
Favorite pvp map. huttball
Favorite planet. dromund kaas
Favorite starter planet. hutta
Favorite flashpoint. boarding party
Favorite type of weapon to use. sniper rifle
Favorite empire companion. Dark Jaesa
Favorite republic companion. M1-4X
Favorite crew skill. Cybertech
Favorite spacecraft. Phantom
Favorite armor set. clandestine
Favorite color crystal. Mint green (though i dont have one yet)
Favorite alignment. Mix of neutral-dark

look at that, you do one of those each week, and i already planned the next 4 months for you guys
They actually do that on Facebook.

The general consensus is "Your game sucks, Elder Scrolls/Wildstar FTW"

Thank you, internet.
Quote: Originally Posted by BruceMaclean View Post

And I love Darth Moonshadow's responses.
B

spectreclees's Avatar


spectreclees
07.09.2013 , 01:58 PM | #69
The forum posters are a small portion of the actual playerbase. Polls will not decide anything.

branmakmuffin's Avatar


branmakmuffin
07.09.2013 , 02:28 PM | #70
Quote: Originally Posted by EricMusco View Post
Another reason is that you have to realize how much of a minority of players actually use the forums. Without looking at the actual numbers and guessing from the top of my head, I would say less than 5% of our subscribers use the forums regularly. Keep in mind that even less than that % would even answer the poll. That is a pretty tiny group of folks to let make actionable decisions on, which is why we use a lot of facets of data (including the forums) to make decisions, and not them alone.
This alone should be enough to answer the people who complain that suggestions are never acted on.