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Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Vanguard/Powertech Rebalancing?
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Kitru's Avatar


Kitru
07.07.2013 , 03:21 PM | #41
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
By all means, go ahead, can't wait to roll a class with a toothpick weapon that can do more damage more than a warhammer.
A Blaster Pistol does the same damage as a Blaster Rifle. A Double-bladed lightsaber hits harder than a standard Lightsaber even though it's just an extra identical blade on the other end. A Scattergun deals the same damage as a Vibroknife.

The entire game exists as an abstraction to create a balanced construct within the confines of the game. Within the lore of TOR, an Jedi should be able to pretty much ignore anyone with a blaster because they could just reflect the shots forever. It would also only take a single hit with a saber to take out anyone. The game is forced to abandon these lore/cosmetic constructs in order to create a *balanced game*. Hell, there's no particularly good *lore* based reason why a Jedi shouldn't be able to pick up a Blaster or a Vanguard shouldn't be able to use an Assault Cannon. Those restrictions exist as game constructs.

Because we're dealing with a *game* not an attempt to approximate the real world, there's no reason why Commandos should naturally deal more damage than Vanguards nor is there any reason why *any* class should *naturally* have more functionality in their desired role than any other class (especially since the devs explicitly decided that there isn't supposed to be a hybrid tax). All that's required to have the Assault Cannon "make sense" as the more damaging weapon is for it to have a higher base damage (which is does). Beyond that, it's actually appropriate for the two classes to actually match their DPS because we're in a game and a game is supposed to support balanced classes to allow class choice to exist between equally viable options. The only difference between the damage dealing capabilities of a VG and a Commando is that a VG is supposed to DPS in melee/short range whereas a Commando is supposed to DPS at long range. The *playstyle* can differ (and it *should*), but damage should remain the same or, at least, the closest feasible approximation.
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Dafydil's Avatar


Dafydil
07.07.2013 , 06:05 PM | #42
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
By all means, go ahead, can't wait to roll a class with a toothpick weapon that can do more damage more than a warhammer.
Cosmetics? pshe, what for? For some lore consistency? Nahhh, you're right, those korean gaemz with chicks in bikini armor can sure take some dmg, go ahead BW, listen to this guy, go into full retard mode and make changes that doesn't fit the lore nor make sense at all.
Thank you Dafydil, this game is going to be a better place with you taking the reigns, man, I already feel safer now.
So A Vanguard should be nerfed even MORE because a class with a Assault cannon should do more dmg than it ok then you're a moron lmao.
Dafydil merc (Midian)
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yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
07.07.2013 , 06:59 PM | #43
Quote: Originally Posted by Dafydil View Post
So A Vanguard should be nerfed even MORE because a class with a Assault cannon should do more dmg than it ok then you're a moron lmao.
You're such a bright light shining into the universe mate, keep up the good work.

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
07.07.2013 , 09:22 PM | #44
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
PT/Vanguards want a buff? Fine, as long as their dps is under of a Merc/Mando, I don't want to get back to that era where a rifle class was doing more damage that a big *********** canon, thx.
Take note that he didn't respond to Kitru's thought-out response, only to insults. So yeah, troll. Don't feed him.

Jarfunkz's Avatar


Jarfunkz
07.07.2013 , 09:57 PM | #45
Quote: Originally Posted by DerTaran View Post
Vanguard/Powertech was the Fotm class for about a Year, and now it is just fine (maybe they nerfed it a little too much). Overall I think balance is quite good and never was better.
At no time was Powertech the best class. Sin was ALWAYS better, Mara was ALWAYS better. What powertech had was a counter to guard (doube dotting the guarded player and the player who was guarding). They had very good sustained dps and burst dps, but their defense as well as their utility was always lacking.
VicVega

Hxxr's Avatar


Hxxr
07.08.2013 , 01:43 AM | #46
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
Do you have *any* idea what we had to do to get even the modicum of attention that we received?

It wasn't just a glowstick thing. It was a "copious amounts of math, analysis, models, and numerous anecdotal and parse based data points along with copious intense discussion over the course of 3 months" thing and all we got was "investigating" and "no timeline". Hell, on *top* of that, it took someone spam posting in every forum to *finally* get their attention and give us a post. We Shadows *earned* that response.

This isn't to say that PT/VGs don't need a going over. I agree that they do (though, as a PvEer, I view it more through the lens of PvE than PvP; I still support a review for both though thanks to the overall gutting that the specs received). I *do* disagree with the notion that we Shadows got attention *easily* or because we're part of the glowstick brigade. We worked *damned* hard for that response and, even then, we got the bare minimum.
Here.

Done!
Damedealer role is a lot easier to locate and fix issues, really. And beacuse of it the lack of balance is much more widely known and more outrageous.
If they want Marauders and Snipers to be superior by design they should tell us. If not they should roll out balance patches. I truly hope it's the latter, because there is no point in playing a dedicated DPS in your Operation and handicapping yourself.
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Just remember that combat logs only state mathamatical facts. They are not rude or arrogant.

yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
07.08.2013 , 02:33 AM | #47
Quote: Originally Posted by Kitru View Post
A Blaster Pistol does the same damage as a Blaster Rifle. A Double-bladed lightsaber hits harder than a standard Lightsaber even though it's just an extra identical blade on the other end. A Scattergun deals the same damage as a Vibroknife.

The entire game exists as an abstraction to create a balanced construct within the confines of the game. Within the lore of TOR, an Jedi should be able to pretty much ignore anyone with a blaster because they could just reflect the shots forever. It would also only take a single hit with a saber to take out anyone. The game is forced to abandon these lore/cosmetic constructs in order to create a *balanced game*. Hell, there's no particularly good *lore* based reason why a Jedi shouldn't be able to pick up a Blaster or a Vanguard shouldn't be able to use an Assault Cannon. Those restrictions exist as game constructs.

Because we're dealing with a *game* not an attempt to approximate the real world, there's no reason why Commandos should naturally deal more damage than Vanguards nor is there any reason why *any* class should *naturally* have more functionality in their desired role than any other class (especially since the devs explicitly decided that there isn't supposed to be a hybrid tax). All that's required to have the Assault Cannon "make sense" as the more damaging weapon is for it to have a higher base damage (which is does). Beyond that, it's actually appropriate for the two classes to actually match their DPS because we're in a game and a game is supposed to support balanced classes to allow class choice to exist between equally viable options. The only difference between the damage dealing capabilities of a VG and a Commando is that a VG is supposed to DPS in melee/short range whereas a Commando is supposed to DPS at long range. The *playstyle* can differ (and it *should*), but damage should remain the same or, at least, the closest feasible approximation.
When you go and pick your Merc AC, the npcs hints you that the merc class is supposed to be the biggest dps between the 2 classes.

Your comment about the game abandoning lore/cosmetic in order to balance classes is somehow wrong, those comsetics are the defining of each class, I'm not sure a maraudeur would be okay if he saw a one saber class like the juggernaut outdpsing him. Cosmetics, and when I say cosmetics I say the "reason why these classes exist" in this game are still pretty important, unless, of course, you want to turn SWTOR into a korean mmorpg, then I would agree with you, the hell with the lore.

Still stand my position, PT pyro's can QQ all they want, I hope BW will never give them back their 3 buttons rolfstomp win. And not so long ago one of my guild buddy restarted playing his Pyro PT on WZs and was still doing awesome, so yeah, screw the crybabies.


Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
Take note that he didn't respond to Kitru's thought-out response, only to insults. So yeah, troll. Don't feed him.
You just did, and now you got owned, *****.

Whailor's Avatar


Whailor
07.08.2013 , 02:36 AM | #48
As far as I care VG/PT are fine. They were way overbalanced for a very long time, packing more punch then specialized DPS classes. VG/PT are still very fine as tanks in WZ's. I rather see them improve Commando which has been a laugh of a class in that area since the beta.
Been there, done that.

ScytheEleven's Avatar


ScytheEleven
07.08.2013 , 04:30 AM | #49
Quote: Originally Posted by yoomazir View Post
You just did, and now you got owned, *****.
Only after you got called out for it, and still, your reasons are terrible. If you want it focused on lore so much, then lightsaber users would be gods in this game, and your assault cannon would be worthless when going up against a Sith or a Jedi.

Also, under no circumstances should a Merc/Mando ever call out another class for having too easy of a rotation. I don't think I should have to explain why.

yoomazir's Avatar


yoomazir
07.08.2013 , 04:45 AM | #50
Quote: Originally Posted by ScytheEleven View Post
Only after you got called out for it, and still, your reasons are terrible. If you want it focused on lore so much, then lightsaber users would be gods in this game, and your assault cannon would be worthless when going up against a Sith or a Jedi.

Also, under no circumstances should a Merc/Mando ever call out another class for having too easy of a rotation. I don't think I should have to explain why.
Maybe merc rotation is somehow simple but it was never as stupid like the pre-2.0 pyro PT rotation.