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Dread Guard nerf - Catering to the Casual


paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.04.2013 , 12:12 PM | #71
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
yeah that phase 1 burn is pretty intense. I switched out a relic just so I could get a lil more umph. Went from the proc dmg to the BA/SA combo helped a ton. Usually at 3k dps in phase 1 but I drop a ton in p2/p3 because BW hates me and targets me with all the Dooms and leashes always.
Hmm torparse is weird. I think you should look at total damage done for heirad and not DPS. Look at this...

Damage on Heirad Phase 1
Their first kill attempt:
SteadTotal dmg done - DPS
Stead - 232812 - 2231.33 <<<
Gorb - 310457 - 715.76
Merc (Ars) - 260535 - 600.67 (not his best day lol)
Sniper (MM) - 309424 - 713.32


Mix Hybrid and 36/3/7 MM Damage on Heirad Phase 1 [link]
2m 41s - 274122 - 1693.74 <<<
5m 1 - 275691 - 913.17 ???
7m 30s - 277329 - 615.94
6m 43s - 293223 - 726.21
3m 49 - 298837 - 1303.02 ???
7m 8s - 302236 706.19
5m 58s - 320309 - 894.04.

2 out of 3 of the 270K logs were from Hybrid Lethality. Then again, the 320K total damage done was also from Hybrid Lethality. Definitely the DoT spec needs more fine-tuning compared to burst DPS specs in order to pull off that 300K on Heirad. But getting past P1, the Lethality sniper should be a very good asset thoughout p2 and p3 **especially** when you are the one getting Doom. I think I would prefer to get Doom as Hybrid so that melee classes and ranged classes running turret specs can do most of their DPS. In the meantime I just run around with DoTs ticking and the ocassional 2 second Cull (quite easy to pull off; more than enough time to clear doom stacks).

In light of the recent enrage nerf and "what's the best DPS composition for DG Council" topic, i think it's a good idea to have 1 ranged DoT class for P2 and P3. Or you could always just plow through the fight with crazy burst DPS >_>

EDIT: Nvm, found out why the DPS numbers are skewed.
22:45:03.273 Heirad kills Steadfast. <<<
20:36:22.614 Ciphas kills B'oarder. <<<
Still dont know what to make of ??? though.
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Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.04.2013 , 01:44 PM | #72
Quote: Originally Posted by JDotter View Post
To add more to this I was the top DPS the DG fight and was only at 2525.02 which pre nerf is close to not being able to kill said fight.

http://www.torparse.com/g/5984/22

2790.87
2769.38
2763.75
2418.92

Was a pre-nerf kill and the dps requirement. We killed heriad before the third shield phase and it was still extremely close. I do believe pre nerf any dps class had the potential to kill the encounter if they played the class/fight close to perfection.

On that same note I do not believe bioware intended the fight to have to be executed to near perfection and alienate some classes that aren't from a metric standpoint performing well compared to others.

Semi on the same wave length I got to run the content with two raid groups (MoX, Hatred) and I believe accountability and responsibility for this fight are most important knowing the numbers and weakness/strength of the two groups
yup basically milas / parklas / botharia / sorvali carried our other alts :P but still lol... the alts were severely undergeared for what people think is requirement for this fight.... ask him about mi ssin tank getting 2 shoted to 5% on kephess fight... 17.5/17.5k two straight hits lol
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.04.2013 , 02:02 PM | #73
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
I don't get it you literally call it a super easy fight compared to pre nerf but then say you skip it to save time? If its super easy why are you skipping it even in an alt group? I mean I get the whole time restraint thing but if you are already downing it it means you have the mechanics down and should be able to kill it in a decent amount of attempts.
we skipped the first week because it was our first week we had to finish progression for last 2 bosses, so it took us 1 day to finish TFB with 1 group, then we had 1 day to attempt DG with second group (which included, 2 tanks that never did the fights as tanks, recently recruited milas had to get used to our strat... parklas first time doing fight as well... and we didnt have dulfyx as second healer... so after like 10-12 wipes on it, some of them were 80k - 40k maybe even less wipes, decided we had to skip to clear the rest before tuesday... we killed 3/4th and didnt have time for TFB... because my guild runs 3 groups, and sun/mon had a different group running as well, and everyone deserve their play time (they require alts, so couldnt have 2 runs at the same time).

Once the mechanics are figured out, specially for the new people doing different roles, took us like 10 wipes maybe 15 to kill yesterday... like i said, my Ssin tank sometimes gets "rejected" from hm SaV pug runs or other guild runs because hes undergeared, and there he is... so yeah its way too easy compared to pre nerf... watch our title stream, notice how my operative waste at least 10GCd or more in heals, just because enrage timer is so easy i decided to play it safety first, not counting it was an awful attempt with 3 Rez lol.... even with that it was a 2600 dps, but before nerf, wasting 1 dps GCD healing was basically a wipe.

just because i did the fight with my main, doesnt mean i know what to do, how to maximize, and play perfect an alt... thiol (tank main) -- glycol sniper.... invinc (dps main) --- hmaull tank.... dulfy (sorc heal) --- dulfyx op heal..... noodles mara dps --- noodle PT tank.... besides dulfy, 3 alts are different roles, tanking the fight, is way different than dpsing the fight .... that plus 3/4 mains being "new, first time to the fight".. in fact even bothari can be new to the fight, he was in our pre nerf kill, but only did like 20 wipes, not the 100+ the rest did, since he joined us later that week ... so it was not a super experienced group (in fights mechanics), neither it was the classic "i play with my alt, but i have two operatives, or two Tanks i legacy gear and play the same thing"

TL : DR before nerf it was "impossible" almost everyone killed with enrage, its true, but now it doesnt even require BiS gear to kill it, or purple augments, or full augmented chars, facts are up there ^^... then i agree is more casual than NiM... instead of 30 sec enrage, could have increased 5 secs + before ciphas 3rd shield, and reduce Adds hp by 5-10k Each, keep same enrage timer... way easier fight, still NiM mode worthy.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

uniz's Avatar


uniz
07.04.2013 , 08:21 PM | #74
Quote: Originally Posted by Airwolfe View Post
'The enrage timer for The Dread Guard has been increased by 30 seconds in Hard and Nightmare Modes.'

Nice to see Bioware caving to the casuals (Attn, this pro-nerf thread: http://www.swtor.com/community/showt...76#post6425376 - started by Death and Taxes).

Not really.

This is Nightmare mode. This fight has been cleared by multiple guilds now - why nerf it? This decision simply robs the ability to compete for other guilds who still want challenge.

This speaks poorly to Bioware's intent to provide challenging content, in my opinion.
Will future content be continually nerfed to the point of Nightmare mode being 'everyone and their mother can clear it in a day-mode'?
please stop misusing the word casual. the amount of time one plays has no correlation to how skilled one is. the more proper word would be unskilled. besides all content that the average ex wow player can't complete in a few tries gets nerfed now.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.04.2013 , 09:12 PM | #75
Carl I would like to point out that the first couple of guilds that did kill nightmare DG were not optimized. They had chars that were not BiS either. Its the same fight. You stick to the mechanics and you win. That's why you havent been seeing a ton of guilds posting progression on the fight. I know on my server there are still only a handful of guilds that have cleared it and most of those are in 16m since we have both Severity Gaming and Chosen on our server.
I would never presume to call this fight super easy even in its current form compared to the original. I would call the current form balanced and the original state of the fight overtuned. It is definitely a nightmare worthy encounter.

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.05.2013 , 12:39 AM | #76
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
Carl I would like to point out that the first couple of guilds that did kill nightmare DG were not optimized. They had chars that were not BiS either. Its the same fight. You stick to the mechanics and you win. That's why you havent been seeing a ton of guilds posting progression on the fight. I know on my server there are still only a handful of guilds that have cleared it and most of those are in 16m since we have both Severity Gaming and Chosen on our server.
I would never presume to call this fight super easy even in its current form compared to the original. I would call the current form balanced and the original state of the fight overtuned. It is definitely a nightmare worthy encounter.
of course i didnt mean it wasnt nightmare worthy, just said, the 30 sec enrage wasnt what the fight needed... neither i believe the Dg fight should be the hardest, it should be kephess or TFB... but besides that, theres a difference between: using different "class" not "fully optimized" lets say my sniper in our kills instead of my op, was missing reli, implant, ear, wasnt fully optimized, but it was a "better" class for the fight.... thats different than using a random alt you dont focus on gearing, not even augmented, with stuff Pug runs sometimes even reject in a hm sav lol.... 1 is necessity other is just, alt run... now ill point out that we wouldnt be able to kill them pre nerf with second group undergear lol, but after nerf, yes we could.

so ill believe the "not optimized" if its true, dont know, none of them plays in my server, is more a "i preffer this class that does better even with less gear", more than using an under geared ssin tank like i used lol... now i agree with you mechanics is 60% and skills 40% of the fight... once again the post is just to shot everyone that there is not that "myth" perfectly BiS gear requirement everyone says, like omg we cant kill this, first answer is " its gear, this just needs more gear" false... just that.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

mastirkal's Avatar


mastirkal
07.05.2013 , 12:44 AM | #77
Sins/Shadows do surprisingly well in this fight when optimized in pure mitigation builds. It's not super bursty, but still hurts insanely bad just like any other tank class. *says mitigation optimized 72 sin tank* after you understand mechanics and there is no issue healing, the burning of the boss for dps is the single greatest hurdle I've seen.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.05.2013 , 07:04 AM | #78
well carl if you go through the threads you will notice that the DiliH crew that got the first kill not only used classes that arent typically the best for the clear but they were also undergeared. They didnt even have a bloodthirst and had guys missing the good relics/implants/ears and were using a lot of 69 rank pieces. There was also a guild that used a shadow dpser in 69s that got it down. That demonstrates to me that there were some truly talented players involved that were able to optimize their dps uptime/output while at a gear/class disadvantage. It also shows that the fight is all about the mechanics and RNG before and after the fix. Sure people can now kill the boss before enrage hits and they have that little extra time, but the fight is the same. Only skilled players are going to down it certainly a casual will still be stuck on the fight.

odawgg's Avatar


odawgg
07.05.2013 , 05:45 PM | #79
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
we skipped the first week
Awwww I thought you guys were one of the few that stuck to it without skipping haha I'll try not to judge

commanderpaul's Avatar


commanderpaul
07.06.2013 , 02:26 AM | #80
Quote: Originally Posted by odawgg View Post
Awwww I thought you guys were one of the few that stuck to it without skipping haha I'll try not to judge
i think he means grp2 (the alts run?)