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Scum & Villainy (NiM) 8-Man Progression Tracking

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions
Scum & Villainy (NiM) 8-Man Progression Tracking

Iggyemu's Avatar


Iggyemu
07.04.2013 , 07:09 PM | #1
**EDIT**
Removed the ability to skip bosses.

Click Here for the Scum & Villainy Nightmare Mode 8-Man Progression Tracking Tool

Introduction

With the release of the Nightmare version of Scum & Villainy expected on Tuesday July 9th, SuckaFish Guild is again offering a tool for tracking 8-Man Progression. This comes on the heels of the 8-Man Nightmare TFB tool we provided a month ago.

Changes in this version of the Tool

I am sure most of you who participated in the TFB Progression tracking thread are familiar with some of the issues we encountered. To be honest there were certain things we didn't think about. This time around we have learnt from that and improved on the tool. Below are the changes between the TFB tool and this S&V one:

  1. The scoring system has changed. Defeating each boss is worth 600 points for the first guild to do it. From then on the points awarded will decrease by a variable amount for every second that elapses between the first kill and the subsequent kills thereafter. This method allows us to take into account the difficulty of a boss and reward the guilds who are able to defeat those challenging bosses the fastest.

  2. Additionally, we have added a variable that determines how many days should elapse before the points awarded for defeating a boss will reduce by half. This variable is set to 7 days. For example, if the first guild to kill Titan 6 does it on day one they are awarded 600 points. Lets say the second guild to do it managed it on day 2 and are awarded 516 points. If the third guild to kill Titan 6 does so 7 days after the second guild, they are awarded 258 points (half of 516). This feature exists so we can reward the guilds that are able to defeat bosses within the first week.

    This graph provides a good visual of the scoring system. The x-axis represents days and the y-axis represents points.

  3. Skipping bosses (i.e. completing encounters in Hard Mode) will not be allowed if your guild is participating in this progression thread. With that said, a higher emphasis will be placed on verification screenshots. If kills aren't accompanied by a screenshot showing the achievement received, no points will be awarded. Without a screenshot we cannot prove that you defeated a boss in Nightmare Mode, so any bosses defeated thereafter will be invalidated. Please read the next section for more information on verifying boss kills

  4. Finally we have included additional bonus points for guilds that achieve first, second or third ranked kills on each boss and the two hour title.

The Verification of Boss Kills

In order to fully verify a kill and receive a 100% of the points for it you will need to provide a screenshot that contains three visuals.

But before we explain those visuals let's discuss how to take the screenshot with the UTC time-stamp window:

  1. Ensure the game client is in Fullscreen (Windowed) mode. This can be set in the Preferences/Graphics menu
  2. Click the UTC Clock link here and set the browser window to a size of your preference.
  3. Drag UTC time-stamp window over the SWTOR Client window and position it appropriately.
  4. On your keyboard, hit CTRL+Print Screen to capture your entire Desktop to your clipboard.
  5. In MS Paint, paste the contents of the clipboard (the captured image). Edit the image as preferred and save it.
  6. Alternatively, you can use screen capturing software like SnagIt or Snipping Tool. Snipping Tool is included in Windows 7.

Now onto the visuals we need to see in the screenshot. Please ensure the following items are clearly visible:

  1. The Nightmare Mode Achievement you receive for killing a particular boss.
  2. A UTC time-stamp which can be acquired from the UTC clock here: UTC Clock
  3. The difficulty of the instance which can be proved by capturing the achievement you receive for defeating a particular boss. Alternatively, difficulty can be verified by right clicking your character's portrait.
  4. Additionally, to verify your 2-Hour title, we need to see a screenshot of the title achievement and the UTC Time-stamp present so we can rank the acquisition of titles.
  5. Here is an example of a screenshot from Drop it like it's Hoth's World First NiM TFB kill of Dread Guards. Please do your best to ensure all verification screenshots follow that example.

Posting Verification Screenshots

Include the following items in your post:

  1. Guild Name
  2. Guild Website (If you have one)
  3. Server
  4. Region
  5. A link to the verification screenshot for each boss you have defeated.

At the end of the day we may not capture everything that could happen during progression. We didn't prepare for anyone skipping DG in NiM TFB and it's likely we will miss something similar in this one. Nonetheless,I know that the majority of us will compete fairly. However, if anything arises during this progression like what happened in NiM TFB, we reserve the right to disqualify any guild that has a part in it.

Good luck to everyone.
SuckaFish on The Bastion (Empire)
Tigg: Sorcerer (Corruption)
Officer/Raid Leader

http://suckafish.enjin.com/

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.04.2013 , 08:04 PM | #2
will try to be on that time, anyways i dont speak in vent, so ill just listen i guess and post answers here
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

KaboomzZz's Avatar


KaboomzZz
07.04.2013 , 09:42 PM | #3
Sweet. So the rest of us can still keep track of actual first kills and not the ones decided on by the role-playing guilds, sounds great.
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Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.05.2013 , 12:50 AM | #4
just read the new rules, i like them... i would suggest that you do something with the skipping, i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd... well at least me, its my opinion... i would just Disqualify skipping honestly... and make the bonus something else or just remove ... also add a period of time to the skipping Disqualify, lets say new DG fight but really impossible, theres 13 days to wait for fix / nerf / kill, if no one kills within 13 days, next weeks reset (starting same day for everyone) people is allowed to skip that boss to have a "fair" competition.

So my point is, linear clear bonus is fine, but i would just Disqualify skipping in "this ranking"... let them be first in their server who cares, post what they want on their website, but here we have a "set rule" not open to "mathematics" "arguments" , WoW comparison, anything....guilds who likes the rule, participate.... others can create their own thread ....

Otherwise we will have the same problem we had in TFB... theres the real W1 DG kill - DiLiH in the rankings... theres the real W1 full clear - DiLiH... then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip.... because apparently skipping a boss because its "bugged" or "overtuned" (false, and doable) make sense, but claiming a world first killing a boss that they couldnt kill (like 1 - 1:30 mins behind timer, at least in their kill vid.) and killed because of a "bug" (an actual real bug that killed the boss for them), then thats a world first (for them) when they could have spent few more wiping days like everyone else, and maybe eventually kill since they are good, or wait for nerf if they wanted and not claim something thats not true ... i would just avoid this whole argument on 1st / 2nd, skip not to skip... and Disqualify Skipping as a rule for certain amount of time .


that's My idea, since i probably will miss that meeting.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

maebeebuzz's Avatar


maebeebuzz
07.05.2013 , 01:12 AM | #5
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
just read the new rules, i like them... i would suggest that you do something with the skipping, i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd... well at least me, its my opinion... i would just DQ skipping honestly... and make the bonus something else or just remove ... also add a period of time to the skipping DQ, lets say new DG fight but really impossible, theres 13 days to wait for fix / nerf / kill, if no one kills within 13 days, next weeks reset (starting same day for everyone) people is allowed to skip that boss to have a "fair" competition.

So my point is, linear clear bonus is fine, but i would just DQ skipping in "this ranking"... let them be first in their server who cares, post what they want on their website, but here we have a "set rule" not open to "mathematics" "arguments" , WoW comparison, anything....guilds who likes the rule, participate.... others can create their own thread ....

Otherwise we will have the same problem we had in TFB... theres the real W1 DG kill - DiLiH in the rankings... theres the real W1 full clear - DiLiH... then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip.... because apparently skipping a boss because its "bugged" or "overtuned" (false, and doable) make sense, but claiming a world first killing a boss that they couldnt kill (like 1 - 1:30 mins behind timer, at least in their kill vid.) and killed because of a "bug" (an actual real bug that killed the boss for them), then thats a world first (for them) when they could have spent few more wiping days like everyone else, and maybe eventually kill since they are good, or wait for nerf if they wanted and not claim something thats not true ... i would just avoid this whole argument on 1st / 2nd, skip not to skip... and Disqualify Skipping as a rule for certain amount of time .


that's My idea, since i probably will miss that meeting.
I agree. Thank you for saying it though, since if it comes from anyone from our guild we would just get called "elitests","tryhards", and "e-peen strokers" (though I cant stroke what I can't find).

Seems to me though that refusing to go along with the only two guilds with clears and titles, the majority of the PvE community, and the people who took the time to set this up for the good of the whole community means you're more worried about stroking your own than having someone else do the stroking. I'd rather be Queen of the Mountain than simply the hill in my back yard that no one else plays on.
Aspiring Casual
Hold My Derp Magenta

Crosan's Avatar


Crosan
07.05.2013 , 03:10 AM | #6
We fully aggry with that aswell we never skipped and never thought about skipping in the next Content/Competition!
Add something like skipping will be disqualied would be great in my opinion . And we will join on Sunday
Aiyo - Operative
Fatality - T3-M4 [EU]
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insaneric's Avatar


insaneric
07.05.2013 , 10:32 AM | #7
Hi all, I'm Fuyri, I built the spreadsheet with the input and feedback from Tigg. And would just like to go over a bit of the thought process regarding the thought process behind the skipping system.

First off we didn't want to discourage any guilds from participating by banning skipping. I know DnT are the big figurehead guild for skipping, but i'm also fairly sure some others did it too and just didn't say or didn't even participate fearing a negative reaction from the community. There's only several hundred people competing in these progression races and the more taking part the better.

Once agreeing to enable skipping we needed to create a system where they could still receive points and stay competitive without breaking everyone else's score. We came up with a couple of ideas that when working in conjunction created a score balance that was where we wanted it to be.

1. Setting the time difference timer to not trigger until a linear clearing guild kills the boss allows the spreadsheet to fairly reflect other linear clearing guilds with relation to the first one. This would also allow linear clearing guilds to not be set massively behind (score wise) the skipping guilds on the later bosses.

2. A linear clear bonus as extra points towards those guilds that clear the bosses in a linear fashion. This ensured that while skipping is both allowed and will give you a high rating spot it is incredibly hard to hold the number 1 spot or beat any guilds that clear within a few days of that top guild.

I would like to encourage guilds to avoid skipping, even if you didn't last time. And if you do choose to skip please stay on the boss for a good 5+ hours, you cannot get a feel for a top level difficulty fight off a handful off pulls.


Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
i know linear add more "points", but i think ( for me) the points worth nothing, i mean its fine for overall guild ranking, but, people like their world 1st / 2nd / 3rd...
This is what we're trying to fix by creating a better system to allow points to be meaningful. Regardless of what's done, it's going to be World 1st on the hardest boss (or timed run) that will be most prestigious.
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
then there's this other guild that claims "world first kill" and confuse people, because there wasnt a clear rule that said if it was right or wrong to skip
If we ban skipping they'll still be guilds that may "claim" the world first after skipping on their own as this is not official it's just a community tracking system. This way I think we'll stay roughly united.



I'll be paying attention to the thread if anyone has any questions and also will be at the vent meeting.

I'm also trying to stay impartial (I imagine Tigg is too) so this spreadsheet is what I/we feel is the best balance for what different members of the community with differing opinions want, not how Suckafish or I think guilds should clear or how it should be setup.
Darkness Tank Assassin Madness DPS
The Fuyri Legacy

Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.05.2013 , 02:57 PM | #8
Quote: Originally Posted by insaneric View Post
Hi all, I'm Fuyri, I built the spreadsheet with the input and feedback from Tigg. And would just like to go over a bit of the thought process regarding the thought process behind the skipping system.

First off we didn't want to discourage any guilds from participating by banning skipping. I know DnT are the big figurehead guild for skipping, but i'm also fairly sure some others did it too and just didn't say or didn't even participate fearing a negative reaction from the community. There's only several hundred people competing in these progression races and the more taking part the better.

Once agreeing to enable skipping we needed to create a system where they could still receive points and stay competitive without breaking everyone else's score. We came up with a couple of ideas that when working in conjunction created a score balance that was where we wanted it to be.

1. Setting the time difference timer to not trigger until a linear clearing guild kills the boss allows the spreadsheet to fairly reflect other linear clearing guilds with relation to the first one. This would also allow linear clearing guilds to not be set massively behind (score wise) the skipping guilds on the later bosses.

2. A linear clear bonus as extra points towards those guilds that clear the bosses in a linear fashion. This ensured that while skipping is both allowed and will give you a high rating spot it is incredibly hard to hold the number 1 spot or beat any guilds that clear within a few days of that top guild.

I would like to encourage guilds to avoid skipping, even if you didn't last time. And if you do choose to skip please stay on the boss for a good 5+ hours, you cannot get a feel for a top level difficulty fight off a handful off pulls.


This is what we're trying to fix by creating a better system to allow points to be meaningful. Regardless of what's done, it's going to be World 1st on the hardest boss (or timed run) that will be most prestigious.
If we ban skipping they'll still be guilds that may "claim" the world first after skipping on their own as this is not official it's just a community tracking system. This way I think we'll stay roughly united.



I'll be paying attention to the thread if anyone has any questions and also will be at the vent meeting.

I'm also trying to stay impartial (I imagine Tigg is too) so this spreadsheet is what I/we feel is the best balance for what different members of the community with differing opinions want, not how Suckafish or I think guilds should clear or how it should be setup.
i will have to disagree again... there are 3 things people care: killing last / hardest boss... full clear... title run... the ranking is fun for us, the few 30-50 guilds reading this, but for the vast majority of the community, they just care to ask who "world first" not whos number one ranking doing mathematical numbers on different bosses... like in my server every time someone says "DnT got W-1 its in their Website" i just want to shoot myself... i dont see why someone would not participate because we have a set rule to not be arrogant and skipping a boss half a day with math and not skills.... like i said "no skipping rule for the first 2 weeks" if no one kills / nerf by that time, everyone starts fresh on the same week skipping the boss if they want.

my whole point is that there are too many rules trying to allow something that it shouldn't... too many numbers for you, too many numbers for the community, stuff that just complicate the set up, should be just Disqualify skipping for X amount of days, done.

this is being overly complicated now, its just as easy as disqualify skipping, if there's really any guild bad enough to say "we wont participate because we want to skip" who wants them here?, let them create their own thread for cheaters and whiners, i am pretty sure no one will want those kind of guilds here, the same way no one wanted DnT after skipping in tfb for spoiling and ruining the competition.

EDIT: i am pretty sure you guys agree with me, and majority of the progression guilds that are left that had the competition ruined by 1 guild last content, and after all its your Thread, and i think you just doing extra work, doing it more complicated for everyone, just for 1 -2 guilds that might "not like skipping", like i said, if they dont like they can create their own thread and add +1000 points to skipping bosses, and lie in their websites, whatever they want, but not in this official thread, unfortunately there is no wow progress here, its your thread, your rules and what everyone think its "fair"... lets see what everyone else think in the meeting .
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.05.2013 , 03:50 PM | #9
You know what I find incredibly arrogant Carl? Your one sided view of my way or the highway that you have been spouting for weeks on the forums here after DnT skipped DG and killed the rest of the bosses first. Guess what only a vocal minority were against it. We received praise from people via whispers on our server and PMs on forums for making the hard decision to skip DG the first week and miss out on a chance not only for the first kill of them but for the loot upgrade which would have helped further down the road. The fact is we looked at how much raiding time we had on the week and made the hard decision to skip. We downed the remaining bosses with little effort and only a couple of wipes. The fact remains though that we did indeed kill them first and discovered the bug with terror about a week in advance allowing BW to fix is pretty quick.
Do you honestly think there is no skill involved with a guild that was able to down the rest of the bosses with little effort? Do you think operator and kephess are free loot? Are you honestly that arrogant that you would rather point the finger and insult someone else because you cannot accept the fact that they made a tough decision and went on to kill other bosses? Get over yourself.
The only thing the vocal minority like you has done is discourage other guilds from participating in the progression threads. When you look at the community and see that less and less guilds are participating I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself. Its because of people like you that you are going to see less participation in the future progression threads because instead of doing the right thing and simply saying grats on the kill and the tough decision you hold resentment like a child and would rather remain on the forums bashing others and acting like a e-moral centered brat who is essentially bullying others away. I will not stand for it. You should be ashamed

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
07.05.2013 , 06:33 PM | #10
Quote: Originally Posted by Ansalem View Post
You know what I find incredibly arrogant Carl? Your one sided view of my way or the highway that you have been spouting for weeks on the forums here after DnT skipped DG and killed the rest of the bosses first. Guess what only a vocal minority were against it. We received praise from people via whispers on our server and PMs on forums for making the hard decision to skip DG the first week and miss out on a chance not only for the first kill of them but for the loot upgrade which would have helped further down the road. The fact is we looked at how much raiding time we had on the week and made the hard decision to skip. We downed the remaining bosses with little effort and only a couple of wipes. The fact remains though that we did indeed kill them first and discovered the bug with terror about a week in advance allowing BW to fix is pretty quick.
Do you honestly think there is no skill involved with a guild that was able to down the rest of the bosses with little effort? Do you think operator and kephess are free loot? Are you honestly that arrogant that you would rather point the finger and insult someone else because you cannot accept the fact that they made a tough decision and went on to kill other bosses? Get over yourself.
The only thing the vocal minority like you has done is discourage other guilds from participating in the progression threads. When you look at the community and see that less and less guilds are participating I suggest you take a good hard look at yourself. Its because of people like you that you are going to see less participation in the future progression threads because instead of doing the right thing and simply saying grats on the kill and the tough decision you hold resentment like a child and would rather remain on the forums bashing others and acting like a e-moral centered brat who is essentially bullying others away. I will not stand for it. You should be ashamed
I believe people were pissed at you guys not because you skipped but the arrogance you displayed on the forums while skipping. You self proclaimed yourselves the best and used the term "impossible". That is what I believe people were offended by.