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Dread Guard nerf - Catering to the Casual


Carlenux's Avatar


Carlenux
07.04.2013 , 02:01 AM | #61
http://i41.tinypic.com/dpdegl.jpg ? :P

one tank... crafted stuff http://i40.tinypic.com/ekq4hi.png

my tank lol http://i39.tinypic.com/331gd41.jpg ... judge the WP / aim difference to see my 150 / 156 gear and crafted lol.

healer missing 5 kits, some legacied gear using crafts on dps,.. so yeah was a LOT harder than it should lol.

in skills.. this group is a 10/10... in gear its a 7/10... 2 dps BiS... rest combination of 168 with bad stuffs (legacy over from alts or faction).... i mean i dont even gear that tank, he has 2 168 armorings, one 162... rest 150 (MH/OH 156)... partisan /war hero... 69 mods... crafted implant.. 4 / 7 enhancements 72s... dulfy's alt has most verpine, missing half augmented gear lol, not counting that almost all Augs. are blue not purple in 4 of us lol.... so yeah it doesnt even require any kind of Min / Max.

then again, if everyone would have done attempts before nerf, and wipes like they should, instead of skipping or waiting, they would understand how the 30 sec extra enrage makes it a super easy fight "COMPARED" to pre nerf... still a really hard fight.... before it wasnt impossible... now its not even Min Max required, or close to it .

PD: thats our alt run // second group btw.... we did skip last week and didnt have time to kill TFB, just op / kephess, but all gear won by "not mains" are being legacied over to mains, so yeah, there is not a "gear improvement" lol.
Hmaull // Carlenx // Carlenix // Pyrotec // Invinc // Hwynn

zzoorrzz's Avatar


zzoorrzz
07.04.2013 , 02:52 AM | #62
People say it's good change because that fight was harder compared to other fights in that instance. I'd like to ask, what's the matter? I don't see a problem if the second boss is the strongest boss. Sure it would make more sense to be the final boss, but if it's the second, I still don't see it as big deal. And since that fight was killed multiple times before the nerf, I think this change was unnecessary.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.04.2013 , 05:40 AM | #63
I like nerf on the enrage timer... maybe not 30 seconds... but now at least 3 Ciphas bubbles don't automatically mean a wipe. I think now it opens the fight more for less bursty specs that can't put out X amount of damage as fast. E.g. MM Sniper versus DoT Sniper. When Ciphas jumps you want to absolutely burst that bubble as fast as you can. Not very easy to do as DoT spec. See this scenario: dot 1, dot 2, dot 3 on Heirad, then boom. Ciphas jumps and puts up his bubble. What do you do...? Put dot 1 again, put dot 2 again (on Ciphas) then you channel Cull. That's 5 GCDs spent putting DoTs up before you can do any sort of DPS. 3 of those dots (on Heirad) are doing nothing and the damage is even getting reflected back to you (iirc). Compare that to a MM Sniper who in the same amount of time (5 GCDs = 7.5 seconds) has already done, Ambush FT, SoS FT ~20-25K damage.

But that can be alleviated when you get used to your raid's DPS and can anticipate the jump. Its just.. well as with all nerfs, makes the fight a little bit easier and gives you a larger room for error.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
07.04.2013 , 05:51 AM | #64
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
http://i41.tinypic.com/dpdegl.jpg ? :P

one tank... crafted stuff http://i40.tinypic.com/ekq4hi.png

my tank lol http://i39.tinypic.com/331gd41.jpg ... judge the WP / aim difference to see my 150 / 156 gear and crafted lol.

healer missing 5 kits, some legacied gear using crafts on dps,.. so yeah was a LOT harder than it should lol.

in skills.. this group is a 10/10... in gear its a 7/10... 2 dps BiS... rest combination of 168 with bad stuffs (legacy over from alts or faction).... i mean i dont even gear that tank, he has 2 168 armorings, one 162... rest 150 (MH/OH 156)... partisan /war hero... 69 mods... crafted implant.. 4 / 7 enhancements 72s... dulfy's alt has most verpine, missing half augmented gear lol, not counting that almost all Augs. are blue not purple in 4 of us lol.... so yeah it doesnt even require any kind of Min / Max.

then again, if everyone would have done attempts before nerf, and wipes like they should, instead of skipping or waiting, they would understand how the 30 sec extra enrage makes it a super easy fight "COMPARED" to pre nerf... still a really hard fight.... before it wasnt impossible... now its not even Min Max required, or close to it .

PD: thats our alt run // second group btw.... we did skip last week and didnt have time to kill TFB, just op / kephess, but all gear won by "not mains" are being legacied over to mains, so yeah, there is not a "gear improvement" lol.
To add more to this I was the top DPS the DG fight and was only at 2525.02 which pre nerf is close to not being able to kill said fight.

http://www.torparse.com/g/5984/22

2790.87
2769.38
2763.75
2418.92

Was a pre-nerf kill and the dps requirement. We killed heriad before the third shield phase and it was still extremely close. I do believe pre nerf any dps class had the potential to kill the encounter if they played the class/fight close to perfection.

On that same note I do not believe bioware intended the fight to have to be executed to near perfection and alienate some classes that aren't from a metric standpoint performing well compared to others.

Semi on the same wave length I got to run the content with two raid groups (MoX, Hatred) and I believe accountability and responsibility for this fight are most important knowing the numbers and weakness/strength of the two groups

JDotter's Avatar


JDotter
07.04.2013 , 06:07 AM | #65
Quote: Originally Posted by paowee View Post
I like nerf on the enrage timer... maybe not 30 seconds... but now at least 3 Ciphas bubbles don't automatically mean a wipe. I think now it opens the fight more for less bursty specs that can't put out X amount of damage as fast. E.g. MM Sniper versus DoT Sniper. When Ciphas jumps you want to absolutely burst that bubble as fast as you can. Not very easy to do as DoT spec. See this scenario: dot 1, dot 2, dot 3 on Heirad, then boom. Ciphas jumps and puts up his bubble. What do you do...? Put dot 1 again, put dot 2 again (on Ciphas) then you channel Cull. That's 5 GCDs spent putting DoTs up before you can do any sort of DPS. 3 of those dots (on Heirad) are doing nothing and the damage is even getting reflected back to you (iirc). Compare that to a MM Sniper who in the same amount of time (5 GCDs = 7.5 seconds) has already done, Ambush FT, SoS FT ~20-25K damage.

But that can be alleviated when you get used to your raid's DPS and can anticipate the jump. Its just.. well as with all nerfs, makes the fight a little bit easier and gives you a larger room for error.
Don't get me started I've still yet to perfect the fight and know I can squeeze out more. Most annoying thing is most phases in P1 occur for 9-12 seconds and its useless applying dots its a dps loss and results in reflect dmg if you do it wrong.

Its to the point where unless I have a wrath proc and CD off CD I'll just spam FL and pre apply dots to heriad as the shield expires to get maximum dps time and a smoother transition into lighting field.

I don't have gripes with P2/P3 maybe in future encounters bioware designs it with dot classes in mind or allow the damage to stick the entire encounter (multi-dot) and add in something to punish a group from just clumping the bosses.

ErosGyne's Avatar


ErosGyne
07.04.2013 , 06:47 AM | #66
BW did a great job on the DG fight ,and i sure BW test it
The problem is, it looks good on paper and on internal testing, the other thing is on live server.
All know that some specs are not in par with others
Just look the shadow tank
Spoiler

Internal testing show they are at the same level than other tanks but in reality, they are not, the same happen to dps and healers.
If they have a hard time to balance the classes, the only option is to "balance" the Ops

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.04.2013 , 07:15 AM | #67
having attempted DG pre enrage timer fix I can assure you its the same fight. Sure the extra time is nice but you still have to do the mechanics. My guild only got about 70 attempts in before the fix but had some very close attempts. Before the change it was necessary to aggro bounce n burn kelsara through enrage now you don't have to do that thats about the only change. The fight is well balanced now I wish BW would buff the remaining fights to make them tougher and fix some of the bugs that still exist on the terror fight.

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.04.2013 , 07:22 AM | #68
Quote: Originally Posted by Carlenux View Post
http://i41.tinypic.com/dpdegl.jpg ? :P

one tank... crafted stuff http://i40.tinypic.com/ekq4hi.png

my tank lol http://i39.tinypic.com/331gd41.jpg ... judge the WP / aim difference to see my 150 / 156 gear and crafted lol.

healer missing 5 kits, some legacied gear using crafts on dps,.. so yeah was a LOT harder than it should lol.

in skills.. this group is a 10/10... in gear its a 7/10... 2 dps BiS... rest combination of 168 with bad stuffs (legacy over from alts or faction).... i mean i dont even gear that tank, he has 2 168 armorings, one 162... rest 150 (MH/OH 156)... partisan /war hero... 69 mods... crafted implant.. 4 / 7 enhancements 72s... dulfy's alt has most verpine, missing half augmented gear lol, not counting that almost all Augs. are blue not purple in 4 of us lol.... so yeah it doesnt even require any kind of Min / Max.

then again, if everyone would have done attempts before nerf, and wipes like they should, instead of skipping or waiting, they would understand how the 30 sec extra enrage makes it a super easy fight "COMPARED" to pre nerf... still a really hard fight.... before it wasnt impossible... now its not even Min Max required, or close to it .

PD: thats our alt run // second group btw.... we did skip last week and didnt have time to kill TFB, just op / kephess, but all gear won by "not mains" are being legacied over to mains, so yeah, there is not a "gear improvement" lol.
I don't get it you literally call it a super easy fight compared to pre nerf but then say you skip it to save time? If its super easy why are you skipping it even in an alt group? I mean I get the whole time restraint thing but if you are already downing it it means you have the mechanics down and should be able to kill it in a decent amount of attempts.

paowee's Avatar


paowee
07.04.2013 , 10:35 AM | #69
Quote: Originally Posted by JDotter View Post
snip
With

NiM DG Council
2m 41s 2856 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/22/0/Overview
3m 49 3060 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/27/0/Overview
5m 1 2859 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/28/0/Overview
5m 58s 2935 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/21/0/Overview
6m 43s 2816 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/30/0/Overview
7m 8s 2891 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/29/0/Overview
7m 30s 2812 DPS http://www.torparse.com/a/320387/34/0/Overview <-- downed

We were still hitting 3 Ciphas bubbles. I think all those attempts we had 3 Ciphas bubbles. Without the nerf to enrage idk, we would've just wiped it the moment Ciphas jumps a third time. It was the same group who did the 2-hr timed run, save for me, a new jugg tank and a new merc healer.

Oh and Happy 4th!

P.S. You want to look at Heirad P1 Total Damage done. Guildie gueestimated that if you do close to 300,000 or even more than 300,000 total damage done, then you're good. If all 4 DPS are doing above 300,000 that's going to ~help, if not push altogether, the phase to Ciphas in only 2 jumps. If you are still not getting past 2 Ciphas bubbles then its up to the tanks and healers to add more DPS.

imo.
Republic < Intrepid > The Harbinger slinger sage vanguard dps
swtorboard.org dps blog.class guides.end-game stuff
16 man | 8 man DPS leaderboards | Galactic Starfighter Records

Ansalem's Avatar


Ansalem
07.04.2013 , 11:22 AM | #70
yeah that phase 1 burn is pretty intense. I switched out a relic just so I could get a lil more umph. Went from the proc dmg to the BA/SA combo helped a ton. Usually at 3k dps in phase 1 but I drop a ton in p2/p3 because BW hates me and targets me with all the Dooms and leashes always.