ETA on Advanced Class change?

The devs did not intend for a single character to be able to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME. It makes no difference if that character has to wait three months to go from being a tank to being a healer, allowing a single character to fill all three roles AT ANY TIME goes directly against the design intent.

Also, what makes you think that people would accept ANY restrictions on class changes. All you have to do is look at this thread and see the numbers of people who want to change their class when there are already restrictions in place regarding changing class. Look at the numbers of people here clamoring for the already existing restrictions to be lifted or loosened That does not even include the posters who have already stated that they want unrestricted and/or unlimited and/or free class changes.

Wow this is argument is entirely semantics (and not one good reason against).

Yes they would have a new AC that they didnt have before.

BUT

They would have the same amount of lvl 55 characters. If I am a Sorc and switch to an Assassin, I still earned the exact same amount of exp, I put in the exact same amount of time, I just am getting a class that I now enjoy.

The obvious downside is flavor of the month etc, and people do a bunch of changes. Hence why perhaps limiting the change to the end of chapter 1/2 etc would be fair. That way you can toy around with a tank and decide its not for you. I just dont know how you can legitimately test out what you like pre-level 10. Ill never have a bunch of level 55's, but it would be nice to have every healer.

I guess I just dont see why I would care if another person wants to switch classes.

We don't actually know it would cost them subs. We also don't know enough to say "many of the players are against" anything. In every MMO I've played, there was no reason to even look for a class-change with the exception of FoTM-swapping. Grind-based MMOs are very different -- you can easily grind up to level, faster than if you did story. The same isn't exactly true in SWTOR.

Honestly, I feel they would GAIN more subs than they would lose. They aren't exactly doing anything to hold on to the "traditional MMO" gamers, so I doubt that is a factor in the decision. How many people claimed they would leave if they had to pay for Character transfers? Clearly, people on the forums aren't as important as they like to think they are.

when several high end raiding guilds say they will unsub if they add in class changes then we know they will lose subs.

The people who want the pay to win option of a new max level toon they did not earn are not going to be long term players. They are the instant gradification crowd and as soon as they get bored they will be gone. An MMO runs of long term subscribers allowing people to skip all leveling content is not a good way to get people to experiance more content.

Folks are going to be passionate about how they feel. The same thing happened when people suggested an appearance system, F2P and species unlocks back in beta. The arguments back and forth were very heated, with similar arguments to the ones posted here.

But one thing I would like to remind everyone of is that the rules for the forum are very clear. In my experience, it's ok to post your opinion, even if its a harsh one, and ok to insult someones post or opinion.

It is not, however, ok to insult someone directly, or a group of gamers or forum members directly.

Supporting or standing against AC change is not a measure of intelligence. But failing to have self control is an example of a lack of ability to discuss a matter in a civil fashion. Only those with weak arguments or little control over their emotions resort to direct insults.

Snarky is fine as far as I can tell. I even get a bit snarky from time to time. Just leave the direct insults at the door.

I have seen absolutely NO evidence that this game will NOT lose more than a few subs if they allow class changes. I have also not seen any evidence that those who wish to change their class will leave this game. Quite the contrary regarding the latter, as the numbers of continuing subscribers in this thread who want class changes to be added would indicate.

So, let's look at this purely from a logical and monetary viewpoint. BW has those who wish to change their class still paying and playing hoping to be able to change their class, and still has those who are against class changes paying and playing because they have not added class changes. By maintaining the status quo, they retain most, if not all, the players and they risk losing the subs of those who feel strongly enough about class changes being a "no-no" if they add the ability to change your class. Which makes more financial sense-keeping the status quo or adding class changes?

I'd also like to add that it seemed to me many top guilds in the game...at least a half a dozen by my count...indicated their entire guild would leave the game if they implemented F2P.

The kind of threats being made now are attempts to either ignore the reality of the situation and the market or keep the status quo. I understand that there are fans of the original design intent. Unfortunately those restrictive design decisions, including not allowing AC change when AC was chosen 10 levels into the leveling process doomed the game to failure.

Simply put, hardcore gamers can not support this title. Casual players, IMO, make up the majority of the playerbase. And I do not believe that casual players would be offended enough to leave the game even if they didn't like this change.

I don't like the idea of AC change. I think many casuals players don't like it either. They like their class to mean something. That is the whole point of being a certain class.....but I don't think it's something that will cause those casual players that do not care for AC change to leave the game, no more than any other change that has been implemented in recent times.

I think, if implemented (which is not a sure thing) it will be something that the vast majority of gamers will accept, abet perhaps begrudgingly, much like the Cartel Market.

Yes, it is likely some hardcore players will leave the game. Many already have due to the recent design changes...but the game has more overall casual appeal, and like it or not this is the probable future of the game.

....and unfortunately, at least for those that find AC change something they do not like like myself we all might have to take a bite. I for one hope this never comes to pass, but I will not quit the game if it does. I will simply move on to other battles and adjust.

Your entire reply is based off of an opinion based off of pure speculation.

We have no evidence that anyone is staying in hopes of a class change.
We have no evidence that anyone is leaving because they can't class change.
We have no evidence that anyone would leave because of class changes.

Most people who claim they will leave because of this? Most likely won't. They will stick around for a month, see that it had 0 affect on them, or their guild, and then they will forget about it and move on to the next argument.

IF it had an affect on others -- using IF because we have no evidence either way -- I could see many more people leaving that anyone would assume.

Financially? It would be worth the risk. Charge $40-60 for a one-time AC swap (that allows you, within 24-48 hours or something, to "undo" the swap). Only 1 useable per character -- and maybe only X amount per account.

That would make them more money than the alternative -- which is telling people to re-roll. I could cancel my sub right now and level 1-55 without issue for free.

I honestly don't care either way. Depending on price, I MIGHT use it once if it was added. Or I might ignore it completely.

LOGICALLY, you cannot be against something when you have 0 evidence it would be detrimental to the game. Anyone against this is not thinking purely logically -- they are using emotion and the "status-quo" of other games to back-up a viewpoint not shared by everyone. Not a bad thing -- until it ends up in the realm of attacking other posters for holding an opinion, or for even pointing out the irrational behaviour.

I really do think that I am part of a minority of players that do not want or desire AC change. It is unfortunate IMO, but likely the reality. I think most casual players do not care one way or the other, or they would welcome it.

I think this is something that will likely happen sooner or later. They could have prevented this whole issue, IMO, if they had made the choice have more meaning or simply had us choose it at level 1. It was silly to design it this way in the first place.

First of all, are the players in this forum who are asking for class changes to be implemented still paying subs? That would be a yes, as they would not be able to post if they were not subs. That would be evidence that at least some of the players who wish to change their class are still playing and paying.

You are correct in that we do have any evidence that people are leaving because they cannot class change. We also do not have any direct evidence that people will leave if they allow class changes. While your opinion is that everyone will just go "ok, whatever" and keep paying, I think there are those that feel strongly enough about violating a traditional, unwritten rule of MMO's that BW will lose subs. How many we will not know unless BW chooses to allow class changes.

I am not opposed to your suggested cost, if they were going to allow paid class changes. You suggested a cost of $40-60 for a ONE-TIME CLASS CHANGE (and you cannot even hold yourself to a one-time change, since you want to leave yourself an out). Do you really think that those who wish to change their class will be willing to pay that much or that they would accept a one-time class change? I give it less than one page before we see the first post decrying that cost and/or limit to a one-time change.