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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.25.2013 , 12:43 AM | #1901
Well, I prefer not to ignore folks. Even if I don't like to converse with certain forum members I still want to see and consider what they are saying. I think they deserve that much respect even if I find their behavior toxic at times.

I don't like to silence anyone, and ignore does just that.

Other than directly insulting others I can handle folks that have strong opinions. There are 4 folks in this forum that I feel are actual trolls and I will not converse with them...but they still have something to contribute.

Besides, there is always a chance that a person will change. I have to be mature enough to accept that person back into the fold and not hold their past against them.

It's pretty much how I deal with situations like this. Don't interact but do not move to silence.

Aries_cz's Avatar


Aries_cz
06.25.2013 , 01:43 AM | #1902
Quote: Originally Posted by Vhaegrant View Post
Imperial: Powertech, Marauder, Sniper, Sorcerer
Republic: Commando, Guardian, Scoundrel, Shadow
I play the same way, just without Marauder and Sniper, I foun I do not like those classes. I grinded Sniper to level 50 (it was way back before RotHC) to complete the story, but now I rerolled him as Operative, much more fun. And I discarded my Marauder on Balmorra, as I think that single saber warrior fills his story role much better.

If I ever wanted to play Shadow, I would roll another consular, as I like all stories.
Supreme Commander of all riots yet to come
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Aries, admin of Czech/Slovak fansite SW-TOR.cz
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Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.25.2013 , 03:43 AM | #1903
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
In all fairness so did cross class armor appearance, which they very clearly dictated was against their design intent and would never be allowed. They wanted a players class to be visually represented by gear.

That, of course, is no longer the case.

Just something to point out.
You are correct. However, I will point out again that there is a vast difference between a cosmetic change and one that affects fundamental game play mechanics, such as a class change would.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.25.2013 , 03:46 AM | #1904
Quote: Originally Posted by branmakmuffin View Post
It is not a new class, it is not P2W. You can keep repeating both of those until the game grinds to a halt but neither will ever be true.

We can assume you will happily accept it if the game is changed to allow it, because if the devs (the people who matter) make the change, that will be how the game will work and it won't matter how you see it.
We all know what happens when you assume.

RTCBrad's Avatar


RTCBrad
06.25.2013 , 03:49 AM | #1905
BAD BAD BAD idea, if you want a new char re roll, changing your AC isn't like re speccing it's like getting a new lvl 55 for money, P2W.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.25.2013 , 03:50 AM | #1906
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
ah, so it would unlock gunslinger but NOT the sniper? in that case, I'll have to say pass. one of the reasons to allow for AC change is for people who don't enjoy repeating the story... not to repeat the story.

I like the general idea, just not implementation you are proposing, the way I understand it. even with my adjustment its still not something I would personally prefer.

(when I say mirror classes, I mean faction mirrors. they are not identical, but differences are mainly cosmetic, rather than mechanical)

in general though, the more I think about it, the more I have to agree with Vhaegrant. his views very much match mine. but like I said - I view class as base class. I don't view AC as a separate unique class. separate unique playstyle, yes, but so are the specs within any single AC. separate unique playstyles, with unique abilities, distinct rotations etc. which is why I honestly don't see the difference between spec switch and AC switch other than arbitrary - no you cannot do it. to me its on the same level as which species can play which class restriction. its there at first but it can be unlocked and then it doesn't matter anymore.

Imagine that. A suggestion that does not meet the exact criteria you want, and you dismiss it as not good enough. There's a shock.

Anzel's Avatar


Anzel
06.25.2013 , 10:12 AM | #1907
How do we have over 1900 replies to this thread and now word from EA? And why in the world are people so worried about this? It's none of your business if someone switches their AC. It has nothing to do with you.
ANZEL - Master Bounty Hunter - Corbantis Galaxy - 06/23/2003
ANZEL - Bounty Hunter / Mercenary - The Corbantis Legacy - 12/13/2011
ANZEL - SWG EMU - CORE 1 Developer - 06/2006

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
06.25.2013 , 11:14 AM | #1908
Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
it is a class change. You are getting a class YOU DID NOT LEVEL at max level. That is a pay to win option. It does not matter how you see it the devs (the people who matter) see it as different classes.
You did level a class to max level though and you are definately not getting an additional character. This should balance out any feelings of exclusivity some players seem so attached to. I appreciate there are many players out there that don't have an abundance of free time and I'm quite happy to discuss the potential to open up options that allow them a little more flexibility in how they play the game. It really has no impact on me personally what so ever. I can't help but wonder why you feel so threatened by this suggestion?


Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
ON your PT vs Merc idea... a PT is a melee class regardless of what tree you sec and merc is a ranged class regardless of how you spec. That is a fundamental play style change. If you have ever played a melee class you would know it takes a much more attentive person to play one then it takes to play a ranged class. Merc and PTs do not play anything remotely alike.
You may have missed my earlier post. I have played all the classes (or their mirror). I class myself as an average player able to get through most content of suitable level and equipped for it. It is not a difficult swap between melee and ranged, any more than it is between a change in role from tanking to DPS or DPS to healing. Learn the basics and you are set. This may be less relevant if you are trying to get a position in a top end raiding group or ranked PvP team, but lets be honest there are many more hoops required for them to jump through and the most important part is whether the player is actually capable or not. That is easily demonstrated in game by running a HM FP or two with them.


Quote: Originally Posted by Hizoka View Post
The story excuse is such a pathetic one. This is one of the only MMOs that actually has multiple stories. So just claiming you have different stories so that is your class is ignorant at best. What defines the class is HOW it plays and no 2 ACs play the exact same.
Please remember that not every one that comes to SWTOR has come from an MMO background. There are many reasons for playing, because they liked KOTOR, because they want to play the same game as their friends, because they are fans of Star Wars. None of these reasons predicts a vast knowledge of the roles you can be expected to play in an MMO.
Those gamers with a strong sense of roleplaying also have a tendancy to place story at the forefront of character selection. Given the way in which Bioware constructed the class structure (primarily one of limited resource to create multiple classes that other MMOs offered while keeping the number of individual stories to a managable level).
The Story and way in which you identify with your character is not pathetic and is very real, just look at the lengths and expense some players will goto to get their character looking how they want them to.

From your tone and the points you make it strikes me you don't focus on the story so much, you are a pure mechanics kind of person, which is fine, but it's not the only way of looking at the game and I would ask you to try and be respectful of the view point of others.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.25.2013 , 11:24 AM | #1909
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Well, I prefer not to ignore folks. Even if I don't like to converse with certain forum members I still want to see and consider what they are saying. I think they deserve that much respect even if I find their behavior toxic at times.

I don't like to silence anyone, and ignore does just that.

Other than directly insulting others I can handle folks that have strong opinions. There are 4 folks in this forum that I feel are actual trolls and I will not converse with them...but they still have something to contribute.

Besides, there is always a chance that a person will change. I have to be mature enough to accept that person back into the fold and not hold their past against them.

It's pretty much how I deal with situations like this. Don't interact but do not move to silence.
you are a more patient person than I am, then.

ignore doesn't silence someone, IMO, they can still keep speaking. all it does is saves me time from reading more insults, twisted words, baseless claims and accusations, etc.

I'm actually considering adding ratajack to my ignore as well, after all. because I guess "i'm done discussing anything with you" is apparently not enough. some people have trouble taking "no" for an answer and I'm too old and too tired of trying to be fair, when i'm not given the same courtesy.

Vhaegrant's Avatar


Vhaegrant
06.25.2013 , 11:40 AM | #1910
Quote: Originally Posted by LordArtemis View Post
Yea, I mean let me give an example of how this might work.

Lets say you have two characters....a Smuggler/Gunslinger, level 55 and a Smuggler/Scoundrel, level 15.

Note, the scoundrel level is just an arbitrary point...there is no limit on level as far as the change is concerned. Also, they can be on the same server, different servers, doesn't matter....

So, you have leveled a Smuggler up all the way to 55 in the Gunslinger AC. Your finished, and when you finish you unlock the ability to purchase a legacy Gunslinger unlock.

You pay for the unlock, and then you can log in your Scoundrel and change it's AC to a Gunslinger. You have a cooldown naturally...perhaps say one week.

I'm not sure if there should be limits on how many times you can switch....you can't switch back to Scoundrel though, until you level a Scoundrel to max level.

So there you are. That is how I think this option would work. A legacy unlock is an interesting idea IMO.
An interesting suggestion but I feel it misses the main reason for having an option enabled to change the Advanced Class.

If you have already levelled a character to maximum level as a Gunslinger I see no reason why I would want to play a second smuggler as a Gunslinger. You would naturally choose Scoundrel, if at this point you don't like the Advanced Class choice you'd just abandon it. Changing it to Gunslinger would be a weird choice as you already have a level 55 Gunslinger waiting to be played. Not to mention the only way to get the second character back to its original state of Scoundrel would be to level a third character to maximum level as a Scoundrel. I would imagine if you didn't like the class enough the first time and wanted to swap out you aren't going to survive the second time either.

My suggestion tries to address the needs of a gamer who has less playing time than seems to be considered the norm, and a lot less experience at what they can expect from late-end game play.

You want to play as a Bounty Hunter so you select the Powertech AC. Things go swimmingly in the early levels and you get to that point where you are getting close to a full rotation and you find you just don't like being a Tank/ Melee DPS. At this point you have probably invested a few months worth of gameplay and time in a guild. That's quite a lot of investment to just shelve it and start fresh, especially if you already have friends in end game content wanting you to catch up.
So you look for an option to keep your character and experience the other side of the coin, the Healer/ Ranged DPS of the Mercenary.
Within the scope of the story both are still Bounty Hunters, they just have a slightly different focus. As long as there is no ability to use the abilities from both classes at the same time there is no dramatic power shift. If there is a suitable lockout period (I only picked a time frame of one week as I liked the Fast Show and can't help but say 'This Week I are be mostly playing as a Powertech') it minimises any form of abuse for AC swapping as currently seems to exist in PvP with spec resetting on the fly.

The prime function of an AC change is to allow a player to dabble in the abilities and specs of the other AC on the way up through the levels (considering this I may have set my costs a little high but they are easily set depending on how much a player base would/ would not be willing to pay, I largely went on how much it currently costs to unlock a new species you haven't already levelled to 50).

Your suggestion would mean to select a Mercenary I would have to level one to 55 and to select a Powertech I would need to level one to 55. It is really just another way of saying level the other AC to max. I can understand the sentiment of players that take this line as nobody likes to see their efforts lessened or their skill set taken as easy to master. But at the end of the day you still have the advantage of multiple characters and all the bonuses that brings with it, more inventory space, more earning potential from repeating dailies, more support to your guild as you can run OPs multiple times (locked out on one character swap to the other), more craft skills available to you.

There is the small advantage that a DPS focused player could get one set of endgame gear and use it to play as Ranged DPS or Melee DPS. You'd still need a separate set of gear for Tanking, Healing (can cope with the same set of gear as a dpser but I would imagine end game would prefer more alacrity and power than DPS would want) and PVP. So time still needs to be spent