ETA on Advanced Class change?

With AC changes. It should be allowed since people will be given a choice either or not they want to do it.

If they don't believe in AC change, they don't have to do it.

If they believe in AC change, they have the option to do it.

It's all about one side wanting more QoL options and the other side not wanting them for selfish reasons.

thats no different then saying they should just give a max level toon of every class but you do not have to take it.

Giving people a new max level character is not a quality of life change its a pay to win option.

The sad thing is you guys do not know the difference in quality of life option and giving someone the option of skipping the game. Quality of life like making a UI change so something is easier to see, that is far and away different then giving someone a class they have never played at max level.

I don't think not wanting my AC choice to have even less meaning than it does right now is selfish. Especially considering I don't want to deny the majority the choice to change AC if it is in fact a majority that wishes to do so.

It's the way I like to play. I like my choices to mean something. That doesn't make me selfish. I don't need your choices to mean something. That is why I am in this discussion.

Painting everyone that lacks a desire for AC change as "selfish", or painting all that wish for AC change as "lazy" is about as silly as one can get. Unless of course they wear a clown suit while doing it. That is probably more silly.

If I am so unwilling to compromise, then those who want to play another class can level the other class and stop asking for a class change, especially since they knew up front that the choice was PERMANENT and acknowledged that they KNEW the choice was PERMANENT.

If you leveled an assassin, your already existing class is assassin, not sorcerer, so asking to change that charactger to a sorcerer IS asking for a class change. It makes no difference if you've leveled a sage, so you think you know how to play a sorcerer. The fact is that assassin is an assassin, not a sorcerer.

I do not know anyone who plays WOW, guild wars 2 or any other MMO on the market that does not have a stable full of alts. I know that is only my personal experience, but it is just as valid as your claim that many players of other games do not have many alts, as if this is the only game on the market in which people play alts.

IF they allow class changes, they need to do it in such a way that it will give those wishing to change their class serious cause for thought if they wish to have any hope of retaining the subs of those against allowing class changes. Restrictions are not going to be enough to keep those who are against class changes playing if they allow class changes.

You want to be able to change your class at any level with no drawbacks, and even LordArtemis' suggestions are not enough for you. If it doesn't fit in with exactly the way you want it to be, it's not good enough and not even a reasonable compromise.

Compromise does not mean "Do it the way I want". It means give and take.

AC class change has been available since Early access, roll an alt like the rest of us!

1. its NOT a class change.
2. sorcerer and sage play exactly the same, only animations and icon appearance is different.
3. I've actually accepted plenty of Lord Artemis's suggestions as potential compromises. its your suggestions that I find laughable. you are only willing to allow it on condition that its basically useless so that people won't take it anyways. that's not a compromise

you and I have gone head to head before, uch to same results. so I'm done with you. I'm not ignoring your account outright, because you are not a troll, just someone who feels strongly about your beliefs, and I can respect that. but you are pointless to have this discussion with, so this will be my last reply to you specifically in this thread.

Okay I've bolded the bit I don't understand.

With an AC change you are not getting a new character, you are altering an existing characters skill set.
With an AC change you are not getting any BIS gear.
With an AC change you are not getting any additional character slots, inventory slots, or class buffs.

The only aspect of the game an AC change would facilitate is a reduction in time to accomplish the same feat of levelling a second character. While I can understand a certain reluctance to allow a second wave of players a chance to accomplish something you have achieved but in less time, you have to accept this is pretty much a part of the MMO lifecycle. All that time spent grinding end game gear prior to 2.0 pretty much wasted a new player can get that stuff (or better in some cases) pretty easily.

Still at the end of the day you can't use ability set A AND B, you can still only use ability set A OR B. The class utility has increased not its power.

Even then it's more about supporting a player base and allowing them more ways of playing the character they have identified with.

It's not really a point I've gone into in much detail as it is very subjective. With Bioware's focus on storytelling, the full voice over and the cinematic cutscenes, people who have identified strongly with their character on the first play through start to struggle on the second playthrough. Now this is somewhat of a problem on any class with regards to the world quests but at least the class quests give some sense of identity and relate directly to the companions, another integral aspect of the PvE experience. Take that away and your first character is lessened.

Allowing for AC changing helps to forge a stronger sense of connection/ ownership with the character and a greater chance the player will try out a new style of play rather than put the game down altogether.

While much is made is made of the difference between class and advanced class, Bioware have chosen to blur the lines significantly with their choice to blend the two Advanced classes around one core class/ story. In many peoples mind a Powertech is just a Mercenary who uses one pistol and carries a shield generator, or a Mercenary is just a Powertech that uses two guns. This is the power of the story. It convinces you the character is more than just a set of arbitrary mechanics.

While I understand how some other MMOs have set up their Class structure I feel it a shame to want SWTOR to follow it as rigorously.

I honestly feel the Class Story forms the core class experience. For example this would be the Bounty Hunter. The Advanced Class is a subset that is a game mechanic to keep two skill sets exclusive from each other at any particular time (you really don't want tank and heal abilities on the action bar at the same time) so you have the tanking abilities with the Powertech and the healing abilities with the Mercenary. Both Advanced classes have further skill trees that allow them to fine tune their role/ playstyle.

I see the advanced class as a form of specialisation and a step that should be retrainable at a slightly higher cost than that of a regular respec.

It IS a class change. A sage may play the same, with different animations, but it is NOT a sorcerer. If you wish to claim that a sage and a sorcerer are the same class, then why can we not change from a sage to a sorcerer? They are, after all, the same class according to you.

You never did answer my question regarding how the current restrictions on allowing class changes are working? Are the current restrictions on class changes keeping people from clamoring on the forums for BW to lift those restrictions and allow them to change their class?

BW has made it easier and quicker to level that other class. They allow sprint at level 1, speeder training at lower levels, XP boosts and even the new double XP weekends, which stack with those XP boosts.

They have done everything short of allowing players to change their class, (which would directly go against their design intent of NOT allowing a single character to fill all three roles, and the ac's being fundamentally different class designs), to make it easier for players to fill any role they wish and play any class they wish.

Even with an AC change, as long as it operates under the restrictions I outlined (fixed location, timed lockout, reasonable cost), you would not have a class that could cover all roles.

Bounty hunter, Powertech can Tank OR DPS, Mercenary can Heal OR DPS.

At no point would my idea of an AC change allow a Bounty Hunter to Tank AND DPS AND Heal at the same time.

The utility of the class is extended the power is not.