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The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > STAR WARS Discussion
The REAL Most Powerful Force Users

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
06.23.2013 , 10:23 PM | #421
Quote: Originally Posted by Capton_tagon View Post
I think that everyone here is ignoring one key factor, and it is a biggie in the Kyp vs. Jaina: Moral fortitude. Kyp loses big time there, actually succumbing to the dark side and destroying several worlds. Jaina on the other hand, had the Moral strength to kill her own brother after he turned.
To be fair, dark side power is power. This isn't about moral fortitude. But her resistance to the dark side is further proof of her force power insomuch as it takes great connection with the light and great control to resist the dark side when you come into contact with it like she has. Her ability to control herself has kept her from making the sort of mistakes that got her brother killed and kept her alive and put her on top in countless encounters with some of the most powerful force users in the post-ROTJ era, including Caedus, who is already on this list.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
06.23.2013 , 10:24 PM | #422
Quote: Originally Posted by marcelo_sdk View Post
So... yes, she only defeated him because he gave up the fight. As I said, Caedus is clearly more powerful than Jaina, so we cannot assume that she should make to the list just because he did.
Also, I didn't say she was more powerful than her brother. I said she is right up there with her brother. And she did defeat him, however you want to couch it.

SoonerJBD's Avatar


SoonerJBD
06.23.2013 , 10:40 PM | #423
Quote: Originally Posted by Capton_tagon View Post
Also, there are sooooo many people you have left off the table: Revan, Bastila, Bane, Starkiller, Naga Sadow, Exar Kun, The Hero of Tython, Maul, The Guardian of Forever, Quigon, Aayla Secura... The list goes on and on.
Starkiller is Galen Marek. He is on the list. Revan has been discussed but his feats that we have seen don't put him up there with the others on this list. Close perhaps, but not quite. Bastilla wasn't that exceptional. She had battle meditation but was otherwise nowhere near as powerful as Revan or others of the era. Exar Kun has been mentioned at length and is in the discussion. Naga Sadow has discussed, but there is little content to go by that would put them on this list. Similarly, Marka Ragnos is one of my favorite characters, but we have no content where he was actually alive, which makes it hard to know how powerful he really was, although I believe there is a quote somewhere saying he is "among the most powerful Jedi and Sith ever." Perhaps when more has been written about that era, we can add them to the list. The Hero of Tython is equally difficult to evaluate because his/her story isn't even settled yet. Maul was simply not powerful enough to come close to a Top 10 list. Same with Qui-gon and Aayla Secura. Not even sure what to say about the Guardian of Forever. You're talking about the monster in a couple of the comic books? Destroyed by Luke and friends in 0 ABY? Hardly belongs on a list like this.

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.24.2013 , 12:59 AM | #424
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
Starkiller is Galen Marek. He is on the list. Revan has been discussed but his feats that we have seen don't put him up there with the others on this list. Close perhaps, but not quite. Bastilla wasn't that exceptional. She had battle meditation but was otherwise nowhere near as powerful as Revan or others of the era. Exar Kun has been mentioned at length and is in the discussion. Naga Sadow has discussed, but there is little content to go by that would put them on this list. Similarly, Marka Ragnos is one of my favorite characters, but we have no content where he was actually alive, which makes it hard to know how powerful he really was, although I believe there is a quote somewhere saying he is "among the most powerful Jedi and Sith ever." Perhaps when more has been written about that era, we can add them to the list. The Hero of Tython is equally difficult to evaluate because his/her story isn't even settled yet. Maul was simply not powerful enough to come close to a Top 10 list. Same with Qui-gon and Aayla Secura. Not even sure what to say about the Guardian of Forever. You're talking about the monster in a couple of the comic books? Destroyed by Luke and friends in 0 ABY? Hardly belongs on a list like this.
See the issue with things like "one of the most powerful jedi/sith ever" is its not really talking top 10 its talking of the Millions possibly Billions maybe even Trillions of Jedi/sith over the millennia he was probably in the top 100 and when you talk about millions and billions making top 100 is really impressive.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.24.2013 , 03:37 AM | #425
Quote: Originally Posted by SoonerJBD View Post
If Kreia had Jaina's lightsaber ability, she would be on the list no question. She doesn't. That's the point. And Jaina would murder Plagueis. Her lightsaber abilities are in another league. It is arguable that she is as good with a lightsaber as Sideous ever was and may be second ever to Luke in lightsaber combat. She was so good in her first dual with Caedus that Caedus thought he was fighting his uncle. Honestly, since when did being a powerful Jedi mean lightning hands and throwing freighters with your mind? Jaina is almost the epitome of what a Jedi should be. She uses alter abilities when needed but not to show off. She is more than proficient in telekinesis and can use force lighting. She has many other advanced abilities such as beast control, and her beast control is better than Kreia's. She has controlled several large beasts at once. Her healing abilities are also well beyond Kreia's. Her lightsaber abilities alone classify her as one of the strongest force users ever. She is the second-best lightsaber practitioner in the greatest era of lightsaber combat. And she has resisted the dark side in a way that Kyp Durron and her brother could not.

It's sort of like we are arguing baseball, and all you want to talk about are home runs. Sammy Sosa hit more home runs than Ted Williams, but Ted Williams was a better baseball player.
But we are forgetting that this is top 10 most powerful Force users not lightsaber duelists. And in the end, while only a Force sensitive can fully master lightsaber combat it is far from accurately indicative of strength in the Force as the use of the Force when wielding a lightsaber is fairly minimal. Unless one is actively using Force speed or valor.

General Grievous alone is evidence of this, despite having no Force ability to speak of he is capable of wielding lightsabers in a highly proficient manner making him able to take on some of the greatest duelists of his age and win. So while it certainly should be take into account, it is secondary to displays of the Force.

And I can't comment on Jaina's use of Force healing, but Kreia has brought people back from the brink of death. I don't think Jaina has accomplished that.

And finally we should remember that not being an exceptionally skilled lightsaber duelist does not infer lesser abilities to a superior combatant. The Sith Emperor for example is immensely powerful and yet his skill with the lightsaber is lacking to say the least.

EDIT: I get that Jaina is very much the Jedi Knight who favors a lightsaber over flashy powers. But that hasn't stopped the likes of Mace Windu from bringing their strength in the Force to bear.

LadyKulvax's Avatar


LadyKulvax
06.24.2013 , 05:38 AM | #426
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
EDIT: I get that Jaina is very much the Jedi Knight who favors a lightsaber over flashy powers. But that hasn't stopped the likes of Mace Windu from bringing their strength in the Force to bear.
Sorry but I believe Jaina Solo to be superior to Mace Windu in the force, her Shatterpoint seemed much more effective than his was.

Also, she has MANY force abilities at her command, the issue is, all of them are tailored towards close combat, her force cloak is perfect for an ambush, she can see into the past and view flashpoints, she can read and change the minds of her combatants, she is an expert at stealth, probably the greatest sentinel/shadow type of Jedi ever and she also has shown a mastery of force speed.

When she defeated Yuuzhan Vong Warmaster Tsavong whilst having almost no use of her legs she was too fast for him to measure,
When she slew Supreme Overlord Shimrra's full group of slayer bodyguards single-handed, she was too fast for them.
Then later on when whilst severely injured she fought nearly twenty Sith of the Lost Tribe and killed all of them with ease because of her speed.

It has been noted on multiple occasions that she saved her own life many times with her healing trance, which she wielded mid-combat, effectively making her extremely difficult to kill.

She also exhibited such an intense natural affinity for force lightning that it was black, which frightened her mother into incorrectly believing it was her that was studying the Dark Side, not her twin.

She can also easily break the force grip of almost anyone, the only Dark Sider known to be able to use it against her was her twin, Caedus, someone who was able to fight Luke Skywalker effectively in combat.

She also exhibited the ability of Force Sever in small displays during the Lost Tribe crisis, using it on Sith Sabers to eliminate them from combat(though I doubt this was the permanent variation).

By the time of the Abeloth/Daala/Lost Tribe crisis, Luke claimed Jaina had largely trained herself whilst on the field, showing the same natural affinity for the force that Luke exhibited during his training as a Jedi and that she had effectively made herself into a Jedi Master, thus he bestowed upon her the rank of Jedi Master and called her the greatest champion of it's order.

Jaina uses her very impressive command of the force as a one-on-one combatant, she is an introvert force user, not an extrovert, thus being named the Sword of the Jedi, just because you focus on personal combat and use force abilities that are more directed on a singular person doesn't make you a lesser force user.
Kote! Kandosii sa ka'rta, Vode an.
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TyboJames's Avatar


TyboJames
06.24.2013 , 06:10 AM | #427
Quote: Originally Posted by LadyKulvax View Post
Sorry but I believe Jaina Solo to be superior to Mace Windu in the force, her Shatterpoint seemed much more effective than his was.
Anakin is the only reason Mace didn't end the Sith uprising.

Let the haters come at me
-= Jedi Covanent =-
Rhayth Khaal - Guardian
"Who's the more foolish, the fool or the fool who follows him?"

tunewalker's Avatar


tunewalker
06.24.2013 , 07:21 AM | #428
I do believe that is the information from Rayla that was have been looking for to make Jiana #8 as it shows exactly what powers she is using in her saber combat and to what degree (the degree being extreme.) and of course what matters in this list is not the power but the degree of which that power is taken.

Beniboybling's Avatar


Beniboybling
06.24.2013 , 08:18 AM | #429
Quote: Originally Posted by tunewalker View Post
I do believe that is the information from Rayla that was have been looking for to make Jiana #8 as it shows exactly what powers she is using in her saber combat and to what degree (the degree being extreme.) and of course what matters in this list is not the power but the degree of which that power is taken.
Rayla certainly makes a good case for Jaina. Again I'm not an expert on this character and her Wookiee page is hardly helpful, I wanted people to make a case for Jaina so I could understand her abilities more.

Anyway, I think we can all agree that the candidates for #8 and the remaining places are in no particular order:

Jaina Solo
Mace Windu
Darth Plagueis
Kyp Durron

I'm struggling to work out whether Windu is stronger than Plagueis. In terms of Alter they are practically equally matched, both have shown equal ability in telekinesis and Force-powered strength. Both are highly proficient in Force speed and while Plagueis has an edge in Control through his ability to manipulate life, Windu has shown proficiency in the non-Altering powers with Shatterpoint.

If I had to choose I'd give it to Plagueis simply because his ability to manipulate life far outweighs anything Windu has achieved with Shatterpoint, and Plagueis discovered how to become a Force ghost suggesting at least equal proficiency in the Sense department.

Aurbere's Avatar


Aurbere
06.24.2013 , 09:16 AM | #430
Quote: Originally Posted by Beniboybling View Post
I'm struggling to work out whether Windu is stronger than Plagueis. In terms of Alter they are practically equally matched, both have shown equal ability in telekinesis and Force-powered strength. Both are highly proficient in Force speed and while Plagueis has an edge in Control through his ability to manipulate life, Windu has shown proficiency in the non-Altering powers with Shatterpoint.

If I had to choose I'd give it to Plagueis simply because his ability to manipulate life far outweighs anything Windu has achieved with Shatterpoint, and Plagueis discovered how to become a Force ghost suggesting at least equal proficiency in the Sense department.
If it came down to measuring the two, Plagueis' midichlorian manipulation gives him the edge in 'who's more powerful.' I find them to be fairly equal, but midichlorian manipulation gives Plagueis that extra point to edge out Windu.
Added Chapter 29 to The Shadows Fall
"Your only hope to survive is to give in to the rage boiling within you, to acknowledge the Dark Side you deny, and tap into it!"--Darth Tyranus