Hey Dev's How about an actual expansion? Is that in the works ?

When I say skills I mean powers and or abilities as a whole. I believe wow lets you pick and choose skills but since I don't play that, EVER I'll stick to what I do know. COH (City Of Heroes(let you pick skills or powers as they were called, you had primary and secondary abilities. Your primary were you attack based abilities and your secondary functioned more as support but it depended on the class. If your were a blaster (WOW analogue archer) your primary was your ranged damage while your secondary were more melee based. If you were a tank your primary was attack while secondary was the defense and damage mitigation. I can go on but I think you get my point.

Then there is DCUO (DC Universe Online) Depending on what the player picks it fucntions more or less the same, you have two power trees to pick and choose from as well as an optional third called iconic abilities that a player can pick as well. Then there is Champions Online, Star Trek Online that gives these same options. In a recent post someone mentioned Rifts and the various skill trees players can pick and choose from. A tank for example can pick some healing abilities or DPS. I believe Lord of the Rings offers something of the same as well but since I have not played that I'm not 100 percent sure.

So considering it has been done, several times I fail to see how my thought is wish filled and since I mentioned several examples, Including WOW I think this thread/ conversation can continue on

City of Heroes wasn't skill-based. Neither was WoW. I've played both, and CoH was in fact, my first MMO. in any case, I distinctly remember watching people do the same thing you're doing here- wringing your hands about how unique you are (or aren't) in comparison to others.

I'm thinking more along the lines of Fallen Earth, and of course, the ever-esteemed SWG, neither of which you may note are doing all that well these days. Hell in the case of SWG, they changed from a skill-based system mid-way through. And though people who played it insisted that it was this change that doomed the game, I've played it both ways, and I think you'd need some pretty thick rose-colored spectacles to suggest that. SWG was an interesting "experiment" in MMOs, but most of the evidence- what actually came of it- suggests that it wasn't tenable. Can you really blame an MMO for trying to make not-suicidal decisions? Even if it makes them more like the rest of the bunch? And just who is to blame for what succeeds and fails in the market. Isn't that us to begin with?

And (of course) again, it doesn't bestow upon you "uniqueness". Anyone can, and will, choose the exact same set of skills you do. You are as special or not special as you choose to believe you are. This problem will follow you to whatever MMO you head to, because the problem, really, is you. Specifically that you care about something that anyone who gave more than a moment's reasoning to think about probably wouldn't.

You want to be unique? Try not worrying about being unique. That would make you the sort of down-to-earth, level-headed person I rarely encounter on forums- and in particular, in threads of this nature.

Let me ask you did you actually read it or did you just cherry pick my response? I said very clearly when mentioning skills I meant skills, powers and or abilities. Now you mentioned COH and that was my first as well and I remember it fondly. Since you mentioned that then I'm sure you can agree that you had primary and secondary abilities or SKILLS if you prefer that you could pick from and customize the character you make as your own.
The hand wringing you mentioned I believe had a lot to do with the infamous ED nerf ( enhancement Diversification) which did create a major backlash and led to the rise of a build. You also mentioned SWG as you put it changed from a skill based system. Now talk to a SWG player and they will tell you how much they loathed Sony for changing the system which as many described it as a giant sand box. It offered quite a bit in terms of depth of crafting and classes such as beast tamer and Terass Kasaii.

I don't feel as if it is wishful thinking to suggest with an expansion, which was the main thrust of my post allowing a player to pick and choose Skills or powers and abilities if you prefer so that they feel as if not only is the character they make unique to them but the game experience is a well. A major upswing to this idea is if you pick powers in a rotation you hate, you have no one to blame but yourself. Now if what you are saying is that you're fine with playing the premade character that a dev made for you then that is fine, simply say that you prefer that rather than zero in on one thing I mention and not even the entirety of what I said at that as the focal point of your argument.

No. I write long, thought-out responses to things I don't read, clearly.

Now let me ask you: if I said something you actually wanted to hear (true or not), would you stop scrabbling for excuses to ignore what I'm telling you in favor of retreading your same diatribe yet again?

I have a proposal, and being the sort of person who claims to appreciate (as well as encourage) rational discourse, I think you're going to like it.

How about we assume that each person here has read the other's post quite thoroughly, understands all it's point pretty extensively, yet still disagrees- probably for reasons he's stating in his response?

Now there's a novel idea, hmm?


It's entirely possible that- at this point- I'm tired and grumpy, but yeah. If you really want rational discourse, well, you might try not impugning the reading skills of the people from whom you're expecting it. For one thing, it makes us a good deal more likely to supply that discourse.

Instead of responding in kind. Namely by bludgeoning you over the head with points I've long ago made.

Then we must agree to disagree. And for that matter, for more than just me. The market itself rather bluntly demonstrates that the skill-based approach does not sell MMOs. A game that doesn't stay in business is a game you can't play. I won't say don't dream. But sooner or later, you're apt to wake up.

WoW grew because it was the casual alternative and a more easier playstyle. They forgone the old school grind and made the casual playstyle the most lucrative, which, as of Wrath of the Lich King and Mists of Pandaria, alienated the hardcores. Granted, they returned later as the new Casual, their forums still paint the picture that the Hardcore playstyle is dead for WoW. Raiding has been streamlined with LFR and their choice of making 10 man raids over their old 25 and 40 mans in the past, as well as the changes to Guild creation and the cross realm LFD means that you no longer need to be bound to guilds or even major capital cities to progress. But the biggest clue to their move to cater to the casual playstyle was when they actively stated that they were no longer creating content that the only top guilds would ever see. Blizzard cut the fat, and those Hardcores left. They returned for a short time during the start of Cataclysm, which alienated the casual players for all of the expansion until 4.3, when Blizzard radically reverted back to the easy way of doing things.

That's why WoW became popular, because it was the easier than the others out there and people wanted a casual experience. When Blizzard tried to change it to appease their minority who complained on the forums that the game was too easy, people complained on the forums about the difficulty. They changed it back, people are back to complaining. But this time, Blizzard has told them "No" and even though they are still complaining, the playerbase has now shrunk because the disgruntled are slowly accepting their fate and going, as Skunkwerks has revealed. You can't expect to keep everyone. So the question still remains: If a small sect of players has to go to make the game truly great, and you are one of the gamers that is told to go, would you accept it?

I've already told you over and over, appeal to the masses. 1 man = $15 no matter what, well until cartel market is considered

But the question still stands. If you appeal to the masses, is it still right to make the others leave, even though their love of the game is just as true?

Yes, this isn't a charity. You build a game in a way to get maximum subscribers. I don't care who leaves as long as my player base is building.

I thought EVE online was skill based and doing very well.

I would actually like to know this as well, will there ever be something to look forward too in the future.

I was pleased with the last expansion but I don't really consider that a expansion, it felt more like a update with the ability to level a couple more times.

The price was great but I would most definitely like to see a huge expansion this time around.

What is the ETA on the Super Secret Space Project???