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ETA on Advanced Class change?

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > General Discussion
ETA on Advanced Class change?
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TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.23.2013 , 09:59 AM | #1821
Quote: Originally Posted by MajikMyst View Post
So did you even read the post above or just decide to be a jerk?? Did you see the post where I said Noxxic said that DPS sages needed accuracy?? Dude.. All you are doing is making a fool of yourself..

I am treating you with civility and you aren't even reading my posts.. There is no reason for you to be a jerk... Be hey.. Point taken.. You don't want to debate the issue.. Even though I did address you post point by point.. So instead of lying about me you were actually talking about yourself right?? Just going by the evidence here.. It is pretty stupid to accuse someone of ignoring you when the post right before your own responds to you point by point..

You realty need to work on your reading skills.. As for logic?? Hmmmmm.. You should work on that too.. :)
Bingo, you just insulted a community member. You have been debunked.

News flash, DPS need accuracy. Get used to it. You have been debunked.

I admit I only enjoy responding to your post because they are full of WRONG in all aspects.

After reading jewel and lordA talk, I hope they don't make AC change like field respec. A person should either get a long CD on it and walk to the fleet in order to change. Plus a hefy price tag on top of that. I do think it should be allowed 10-55 though.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 10:24 AM | #1822
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
but switching talent trees does. and yet, we can already do that.

also... you can buy a chiss unlock. used to be credits only. now its credits or cartel coins. so... you don't have to level up a chiss, to roll a chiss jedi.

pay to win!
Switching talent trees or c hanging spec is a far cry from allowing class changes.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 10:26 AM | #1823
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
So an AC change for a sage would unlock a jedi knight?

Oh that's totally what people were asking.

Oh wait...it wasn't.

Learn the difference.
Shadow and sage are two different classes. Leveling a shadow to max level does NOT entitle you to play that character as a sage. You leveled as a shadow, not a sage.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 10:31 AM | #1824
Quote: Originally Posted by Savej View Post
For the same reason leveling a sage healer lets you switch to playing a sage dps? I'm sure you would oppose that too if you could.
Well, that would make you wrong about that, too. I am not against changing specs.

Does leveling a sage as either heals or DPS allow you to tank? NO, you'd have to roll an assassin to be able to tank if you chose the inquisitor story.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 10:32 AM | #1825
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
and yet, that's exactly what you all are doing? "no, its a completely separate class!"

at least we provide logical argument why its more of a specialization then a class.
As we have provided logical arguments and dev statements as to why they are different classes.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 10:41 AM | #1826
Quote: Originally Posted by SithKoriandr View Post
Now it's just a matter of opinion, so really this is all...I vote yes. I vote no. And no meaningful discussion can happen.

What exactly does rerolling ACs hurt? Nothing. I have 8 ACs going now. I could have 1 of each AC, so it wouldn't matter if I switched ACs as I know all the ACs (since rep and empire are just mirrors of each other).

So, the reason not to, is really, what, "Learn to play your class?"

That's already said to people and they can't reroll their AC.

Allowing this would...

1) Make more players happy than upset.

2) Make TOR MORE MONEY which judging by the various dye threads and datacube threads makes many players happy.

3) Hurts no one.

I say we just remember #2...TOR GETS MORE MONEY!
Let's start off by being honest and not trying to stretch a truth in order to fit your desire for class changes. You may have one of each mirror AC. You do not have one of each AC as there are 16 AC's.

Even if you have one of each mirror AC or even one of each AC, not everyone who wants to change their class does. Allowing you to change your class would allow that person who has only ever played a smash monkey to change his class to juggernaut and make people's game play miserable as he fumbles about trying to gear and tank when he has never tanked before.

Sometimes that one person who may be over qualified to do something can't be allowed to do it in order to protect people from those that aren't qualified.

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.23.2013 , 10:57 AM | #1827
As has been said before, just to ring in again, AC can be looked at a unique class...Bioware has publicly stated they look at them like classes (perhaps they didn't say directly they ARE classes but they came pretty close) and have said nothing to the contrary, to my knowledge, up to this point.

It is possible the current dev team looks at ACs differently, Ill concede that. The only thing we have heard, to my knowledge, is a dev from the current staff saying they have been involved in serious talks about offering AC change and they expect it will happen eventually...I'm paraphrasing, but the exact quotes were posted.

I don't think the point of them being classes or not really effects the discussion though. I personally would like the choice to have MORE meaning, not less...right now I think the choice does not have as much meaning as it should.

But I still think the real issue is whether or not offering an AC change would hurt or help the game. After all, the ultimate goal should be, IMO, to make the game more appealing to a wider audience.

I hope that one of those things is not AC change, but will begrudgingly accept such a change if it is what is best for the game overall. Personally I'm not convinced...yet.

Jeweledleah's Avatar


Jeweledleah
06.23.2013 , 11:02 AM | #1828
Quote: Originally Posted by Ratajack View Post
As we have provided logical arguments and dev statements as to why they are different classes.
you have provided an old quote that doesn't definitively say that they are distinct separate classes, but rather that they are distinctly different playstyle designs. the only thing supports your desire to keep it as is is the fact that its AT THIS TIME a permanent selection

we have provided a more recent quote that they are considering allowing the change as well as official class introduction page that is arranged by base class with no hint anywhere that advanced classes are a separate class, that class forums are arranged by class with separate subsections for AC, not as 16 different forums, not even split into sage/sorc or assassin/shadow (aka mirror advanced classes kept together), but rather kept organized by base class.

in game setup where character creation allows you to select from base classes, not advanced classes, the fact that throughout the game you are consistently referred to as your base class, not your advanced class, that you keep getting base class abilities that are used by both advanced classes throughout your leveling process, the fact that you don't have to select specialization at all and still be able to hit at least lvl 50 (at the time experiment was made - lvl 50 WAS the max level, but I have no doubt that some enterprising inquisitive individual will level to 55 as base class sooner or later), definitely finish your story.

so... is this a matter of opinion then, not a definitive fact the way you think it is? I think it might be.

while many of the concerns against allowing the change are valid and should be considered when making final decision, this doesn't mean that the change is most definitely a bad idea and should not be considered at all. and considering a quote from the developer, quote that started this thread in a first place? they think it should be considered as well.

Ratajack's Avatar


Ratajack
06.23.2013 , 11:23 AM | #1829
Quote: Originally Posted by Jeweledleah View Post
you have provided an old quote that doesn't definitively say that they are distinct separate classes, but rather that they are distinctly different playstyle designs. the only thing supports your desire to keep it as is is the fact that its AT THIS TIME a permanent selection

we have provided a more recent quote that they are considering allowing the change as well as official class introduction page that is arranged by base class with no hint anywhere that advanced classes are a separate class, that class forums are arranged by class with separate subsections for AC, not as 16 different forums, not even split into sage/sorc or assassin/shadow (aka mirror advanced classes kept together), but rather kept organized by base class.

in game setup where character creation allows you to select from base classes, not advanced classes, the fact that throughout the game you are consistently referred to as your base class, not your advanced class, that you keep getting base class abilities that are used by both advanced classes throughout your leveling process, the fact that you don't have to select specialization at all and still be able to hit at least lvl 50 (at the time experiment was made - lvl 50 WAS the max level, but I have no doubt that some enterprising inquisitive individual will level to 55 as base class sooner or later), definitely finish your story.

so... is this a matter of opinion then, not a definitive fact the way you think it is? I think it might be.

while many of the concerns against allowing the change are valid and should be considered when making final decision, this doesn't mean that the change is most definitely a bad idea and should not be considered at all. and considering a quote from the developer, quote that started this thread in a first place? they think it should be considered as well.
That dev post happens to be the LATEST dev post to mention AC's as fundamentally different class designs. Even the more recent post which they mention the possibility of allowing AC changes did not in any way contradict their earlier statement or give any indication that they no longer saw the AC's as fundamentally different class designs.

We have pointed out the differences in class skills and play styles, such as assassin being a stealthy melee DPS/tank and sorcerer being a ranged DPS/heals. In fact that assassin in melee in all three specs, just like a rogue in WOW, and the sorcerer is ranged in all three specs, just like a priest in WOW.

In fact, is there any single class (AC) that allows to respec with in that class and go from ranged to melee or from melee to ranged? Is there any single class (AC) which would need to change their armor as a result of a respec?

Ranged vs melee and different armor types are almost always an indication of different classes.

Look at how the game lists your class. Look at your guild roster, do a /who, select a character. You will see assassins, sorcerers, powertechs, mercenaries, marauders, juggernauts, snipers and operatives on the imperial side if you look at classes. If the classes are inquisitor, warrior, bounty hunter and imperial agent, why are they not listed as such in your guild roster?

One more point, as has been asked before, if we chose AC at character creation, would this discussion even be happening?

LordArtemis's Avatar


LordArtemis
06.23.2013 , 11:40 AM | #1830
I do think that if we chose our AC at character creation this discussion would be moot. I think it was silly to design it this way in the first place...essentially making someone a Trooper/Commando/Combat Medic. I understand they did so to add variety, basically allowing 6 specializations inside two advanced roles per class. But it seems to me it caused some problems.

That is compounded by the fact that folks still get base class abilities and still have references in the game to that base class though you left that base class behind long ago.

I think they should come out and say, without any room for doubt, that AC IS A CLASS. Then, they should remove all references to base class from armor and the game post level 10, instead listing it with the advanced class names, move all base abilities under the advanced class frame in abilities and delete the base class header, and make the advanced class choice MANDATORY at level 10.

That would go a long way toward making the choice more meaningful IMO.
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