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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

Comfterbilly's Avatar


Comfterbilly
06.22.2013 , 03:37 PM | #3701
Quote: Originally Posted by Atramar View Post
Coordination - it's all about brain, I've seen full pug groups outcoordinating 2 pre mades and winning by far...
if all 8 pugs have brain, they will use their class to their advantage for group, not for their epeen.

gear - not an issue anymore

composition - well, yeah, here is one point for premade , some classes combined can give nice results, but I've beein in games won with 5 healers, and won with no healing at all.
Won a game full of sins+sorcs against smashers...

Biggest advantage of premade is less stupid in their team...
It's not about classes any more, it's quite balanced rock-paper-scizzors-lizzard-spock (how are merc/commandos now?), it's not about gear, not about coordination (after 1,5 year most peopel should already know what to do in each warzone and if they don't , there are plenty of guides).
it's all about who's got less stupid in their team = win.

Strong premades lost cause their node guardian was stupid.

you can't ban for being stupid (otherwise I would be banned ages ago )
The premaders here are all completely full of it. Premades aren't here doing anything but defending their 70 to 90 percent win rate against randoms. Everything they put forward is a straw man or a non sequitur.

  • Sure heals are over powered right now. Guess what? I still get in pug matches with one or zero heals on my side verses three or four on their side.
  • Sure good solos can make a difference in a match. Guess what? Still doesn't replace 4-8 players running around with predation speed the minute a node is approached.
  • Sure good solos can focus. Guess what? Still doesn't mean they can target call. Randomly, without communication, you can get two or three pugs to focus a healer, but that's nothing compared to five or six people killing everyone on the other side one person at a time.

Apples ≠ Oranges. Don't belong in the same queue, and that's just one winning argument against premades ruining non-ranked warzones.

Comprehensively, premades don't have a case at all to be in a queue with solos.

  1. Gear progression speed
  2. Voip
  3. Same Team Practice
  4. Target calling
  5. Group composition

The list goes on. In whole, the case against premades in solo queue is insurmountable for those arguing in its favor. Nevermind the bottom feeders who choose not to go ranked simply because they think its fun and funny that BW is naive enough to let them chase off paying customers.
A man is only as strong as the computer he plays Huttball on...

***Sign the Solo-Only que for Warzone PVP.***
***Pug Vs. Premade: Vicious Verbal Jousting.***

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 03:56 PM | #3702
Quote: Originally Posted by Comfterbilly View Post
The premaders here are all completely full of it. Premades aren't here doing anything but defending their 70 to 90 percent win rate against randoms. Everything they put forward is a straw man or a non sequitur.

  • Sure heals are over powered right now. Guess what? I still get in pug matches with one or zero heals on my side verses three or four on their side.
  • Sure good solos can make a difference in a match. Guess what? Still doesn't replace 4-8 players running around with predation speed the minute a node is approached.
  • Sure good solos can focus. Guess what? Still doesn't mean they can target call. Randomly, without communication, you can get two or three pugs to focus a healer, but that's nothing compared to five or six people killing everyone on the other side one person at a time.

Apples ≠ Oranges. Don't belong in the same queue, and that's just one winning argument against premades ruining non-ranked warzones.

Comprehensively, premades don't have a case at all to be in a queue with solos.

  1. Gear progression speed
  2. Voip
  3. Same Team Practice
  4. Target calling
  5. Group composition

The list goes on. In whole, the case against premades in solo queue is insurmountable for those arguing in its favor. Nevermind the bottom feeders who choose not to go ranked simply because they think its fun and funny that BW is naive enough to let them chase off paying customers.
Most premades that I am on would much rather have a match making system rather than the current system or seperate queues.
This is because not all premades are equal. Some are just a couple of friends or a healer grouping with a tank from the previous match because he doesn't feel like constantly dieing. Are you really saying that these should be in the same matches as ranked teams.
If you could actually realize the problem is skill and coordination and not simply someone clicking "join group" then you would stop sounding like a broken record and actually listen to people.
Matchmaking fixes this, separate queues simply makes it so that casual groups are being farmed, rather than casual solos.

TridusSWTOR's Avatar


TridusSWTOR
06.22.2013 , 04:01 PM | #3703
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
Most premades that I am on would much rather have a match making system rather than the current system or seperate queues.
This is because not all premades are equal. Some are just a couple of friends or a healer grouping with a tank from the previous match because he doesn't feel like constantly dieing. Are you really saying that these should be in the same matches as ranked teams.
If you could actually realize the problem is skill and coordination and not simply someone clicking "join group" then you would stop sounding like a broken record and actually listen to people.
Matchmaking fixes this, separate queues simply makes it so that casual groups are being farmed, rather than casual solos.
According to pro-premade groups. Ranked pvp BiS groups are a myth and a fairy tale. So this notion of separate queue's forcing casual groups to be thrown to the wolves is false. These are the words directly from every pro-premader in this very thread.

So since there are no such thing as these elite groups farming people for comms, according to the pro-premade crowd. Then there is nothing to worry about for casual groups in a separate queue.

SajPl's Avatar


SajPl
06.22.2013 , 04:11 PM | #3704
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
According to pro-premade groups. Ranked pvp BiS groups are a myth and a fairy tale. So this notion of separate queue's forcing casual groups to be thrown to the wolves is false. These are the words directly from every pro-premader in this very thread.

So since there are no such thing as these elite groups farming people for comms, according to the pro-premade crowd. Then there is nothing to worry about for casual groups in a separate queue.
If casual groups are a problem for you then you are one of those badds that drag every team down, you will allways be loosing vs premade or pug, stop going into pvp, problem solved.

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
06.22.2013 , 04:15 PM | #3705
Quote: Originally Posted by akabane_k View Post
Most premades that I am on would much rather have a match making system rather than the current system or seperate queues.
This is because not all premades are equal. Some are just a couple of friends or a healer grouping with a tank from the previous match because he doesn't feel like constantly dieing. Are you really saying that these should be in the same matches as ranked teams.
If you could actually realize the problem is skill and coordination and not simply someone clicking "join group" then you would stop sounding like a broken record and actually listen to people.
Matchmaking fixes this, separate queues simply makes it so that casual groups are being farmed, rather than casual solos.
Every argument you can make for premades being in the same queue with solo players are arguments you could make to raise the limit of premades from 4 to 8. Why can't 5- 8 people form a group and queue for warzones? This is a mmo and friends should all be able to play together after all. Why should they have to suffer long queue times just because they had enough gumption to form a 5-8 team? This is a social game. Discussing strategy among themselves is part of the game. They should not have to endure any longer queue times than the rest of the players.

cashogy_reborn's Avatar


cashogy_reborn
06.22.2013 , 04:15 PM | #3706
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
According to pro-premade groups. Ranked pvp BiS groups are a myth and a fairy tale. So this notion of separate queue's forcing casual groups to be thrown to the wolves is false. These are the words directly from every pro-premader in this very thread.

So since there are no such thing as these elite groups farming people for comms, according to the pro-premade crowd. Then there is nothing to worry about for casual groups in a separate queue.
please link me to a post where anyone in this thread says exactly that... pretty sure you cannot.

do you know what players that do RWZ do when their friends/guildmates are not all on for RWZ? they form smaller groups and do regs. and yeah, these folks are usually very skilled, on top of the other advantages they have (voip, team cohesion, etc). their intent is not to steamroll pugs, but to PLAY THE GAME. because they are good, and most pugs are bad, the result is often a steamroll. that isnt the premades fault; they arent cackling maniacally at their monitors at the potential e-tears they have created.....

skill based matchmaking would be a much, much better comprehensive solution. the bads in this thread are tired of being beaten by better players in groups? well im tired of having them in my warzones too, often costing us objectives that can be the direct cause for a loss. real skill based matchmaking benefits everyone: bads dont have to face players way above their head in skill level, and good players no longer have to deal with the frustration of having someone on their team that is licking the monitor.
Dany - Attomm - Dan'y - Fogel
The Original Stormborn Commando Representative
The King of Bads

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 04:24 PM | #3707
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
According to pro-premade groups. Ranked pvp BiS groups are a myth and a fairy tale. So this notion of separate queue's forcing casual groups to be thrown to the wolves is false. These are the words directly from every pro-premader in this very thread.

So since there are no such thing as these elite groups farming people for comms, according to the pro-premade crowd. Then there is nothing to worry about for casual groups in a separate queue.
If you assume this is true, then there is no need for a seperate queue since those BIS groups that farm you don't actually exist.

You cannot change your assumptions based upon the argument you are trying to rebuke.

If farming premades and causal premades exist, matchmaking is the best option(as shown above)
If farming premades exist and casuals don't, separate is the best option. (what you are essentially arguing
If farming premades don't exist and casuals do, the curent system is best, since everyone is around the same skill, so no need for matchmaking or seperate queues.
If no premades exist, what are we arguing about.

So unless you can prove casual premades don't exist, seperate queues are not the best option. And this is impossible to prove, simply due to observation.

MotorCityMan's Avatar


MotorCityMan
06.22.2013 , 04:27 PM | #3708
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
and most pugs are bad,
Denigrating other players in an attempt to bolster your argument is a logical fallacy as well as being just plain rude.

akabane_k's Avatar


akabane_k
06.22.2013 , 04:34 PM | #3709
Quote: Originally Posted by MotorCityMan View Post
Denigrating other players in an attempt to bolster your argument is a logical fallacy as well as being just plain rude.
Not if it is true. There are reasonably objective ways to measure skill, or at least competence. If a person fails those tests, they are bad. It is not an insult, it is a fact.

Arunas's Avatar


Arunas
06.22.2013 , 04:45 PM | #3710
Quote: Originally Posted by cashogy_reborn View Post
skill based matchmaking would be a much, much better comprehensive solution. the bads in this thread are tired of being beaten by better players in groups? well im tired of having them in my warzones too, often costing us objectives that can be the direct cause for a loss. real skill based matchmaking benefits everyone: bads dont have to face players way above their head in skill level, and good players no longer have to deal with the frustration of having someone on their team that is licking the monitor.
Well said.

Case in point. On my server guild ranked is dead. Because with gear and communication being equal skill differences lead to predictable outcome, making guild with less good players have no chance vs better guilds so they don't even try anymore.

Since there is no cross server the same issue will remain forever, single server has insufficient player pool for any queue, matchmaking or group finding changes to change anything, one-sided regular war-zones will continue, frustrating one side and boring another and PvP in swtor will continue slowly dying.