Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

And you cannot realize the hypocrisy of this? Just because someone has friends/guildies they queue with does not mean they are the evil pug farmers who run around kicking kittens that you make them out to be. (This is entirely a construction of your mind considering you seem to despise premades and would never join one and therefore could not possibly have any idea what they are thinking). For casuals to fight against premades is the exact thing you have been complaining about this entire thread, and yet you are fine with it, as long as those casuals are in a group. In case you haven't realized it yet clicking 'invite to group" does not change a persons ability, gear, or skills, so why should it change their bracket?

So hang on so a premade casual should NOT be farming pug, but yet a premade hardcore SHOULD be farming premade casual.

Wait what?

So it's ok, sorta, maybe, could be for good pugs to pugstomp bad pugs too? I mean if good Republic PuGs or Empire Pugs keep queueing and beating up their bad counterparts thats ok too?

i think that is where you are wrong. the times that i have been in full blow 8 pugs v 8 pugs matches, you can easily tell who the good players are and they have a huge impact on the outcome. especially if said players are healers or tanks.

which is why i do not think a solo queue will give you the solution you desire. skill based matchmaking, as i have suggested throughout the entire life of this thread, would be a much more comprehensive solution that would benefit all parties involved. you would only face similarly skilled players, regardless if you queued in a group or solo.

No matter how fancy of a carpet you use, that's still dung you're shoveling under it, man.

Reinvent the wheel every time every post with you guys: 1) Voip matters 2) composition matters 3) practice with same team matters 4) greater rate of gear progression matters.

Those are real, visceral, witness-them-in-action kind of truths. Premade vs. solo, there are 3-4 major and probably 10-12 minor advantages the premade has over the group. How many advantages do the solo team inherently have over the premade? Zero. These are foundational facts of the game, man.

One 4-man beats another 4-man? That's skill. Which you should be happy about. All other things being equal.

I have to say, I'm pretty frustrated by the groups who come in and dominate non ranked wzs. You see the same people again and again, but here is the kicker, it is not always the same 4 from one guild, you see 8 from the same guild. Thus on The Red Eclipse, there are a few notable guilds who clearly have enough for one ranked group, if not two and who refuse to play ranked. This really sucks the fun out of playing matches, getting steam-rolled by the same people repeatedly.

I've got to the point where I'll finish the match I'm in, then stop playing when I see certain guilds - there just simply isn't any point trying to play a match against them. It isn't fun, I don't learn anything, and it generally brings the worst out in me. Being repeatedly beaten by people who could very clearly be involved in ranked matches, perhaps even filling all 16 slots, is something I strongly dislike.

Now, if this is a l2p issue, then I find the suggestion that "things are fine the way they are" to be ironic. I'd note, that in general I've learn't next to, or just simply plain old nothing from matches I have had no part in - run out the spawn, die. Run out the spawn die. etc. etc. Simply a fabulous way to learn how to play right? If you think people need to learn to play, then you have to give them somewhere to learn to play!

As to getting rid of groups being the perfect cure, no it isn't. However stopping a small number of people wrecking the PvP experience for a large number of people, I can't see how that doesn't tally. Yes, allowing people to chose not to fight premades will not be a magic bullet, but it will significantly improve the majority of people's experience by massively reducing the chance you'll jump into a match where one side is able to completely overpower the other.

This would hurt casual premades yes, but I have a feeling that this would be less of an issue, given that it seems that far more people run as pugs, than those who run as premades.

Finally to skill, seriously, you can spot people who are good? Give that man a medal! Just engage your brain a second. Lets pick you, and 3 other random people, then match you against a random premade from your server. Do you expect to win? Everyone seems to agree the answer is no, for many reasons, some true, some specious, some crazy, many littered through this thread. That kinda is the point of this... And trying to find some way to bring balance back in.

I'd really like to see proper match making would be best, but fear I can only dream of such a day as that on which it arrives. It could do so much good, fostering competitive PvP, helping the PvP community to grow, rather than throwing rookies to battle seasoned veterans, but alas I fear we are to be condemned to the same system as we have now for a long time yet.

I guess a final thing I'd love is a new tier of gear that can only be attained through ranked matches. Do that and a large part of pug farming would become pointless. That would be nice.

NB: Some people are highly active in PvP, this does not make them a large proportion of the PvP community. Most people don't average many matches in a day.

I faced a premade last night on a mid level alt, it was Hypergate. They crushed us at mid and after my second almost instant death I realised they had to be a premade because I was being focus fired and pugs can't accomplish that without voip. Next time I ran in with a small group I saw their guild tags which confirmed it. We couldn't kill them either because they were coordinating heals as well (we did get a couple stunned for the explosion though). Their use of voip was clearly giving them an enormous advantage we couldn't deal with.

I knew we wouldn't win but I wrote in Ops that they were a premade so we had to grab their pylon if we wanted a chance. We did get their pylon but they got it zerged it back before the explosion so they won. I am still happy we managed to work as a group and change our tactics though, it was funny to see the premade having no pylons and frantically trying to get it back before the explosion.

At the end of the match I checked the scoreboard. Our pug team had 6 Sith Inquisitors. Lol.

Yeah premades ruin the warzones that they join, and discourage people from queueing after their matches, but at the moment they don't seem to be common enough to be a big problem, at least not on my server.

Focus firing and cross healing are not some elite abilities that only appear when a team has voice chat. They come from experienced players being situationaly aware of what is going on around them.

It just like players knowing that if they manage to fight off the opposing team from a node, the southern node in DC for example, that the enemy team will be going after one of the other nodes and they start heading that direction before a "inc east" or "inc west" is even called.

I have never seen a pug focus fire every single member of the other team down one at a time. Sorry but you can't do that efficiently without voice chat - how do you know which person to target next? You certainly don't have time to type it out. I am not talking about standard focus firing that quality players achieve in pugs. I am almost positive they were verbally calling out kill targets across voip, either that or operating in small focus target groups (we all died too fast to really tell what was going on). It was too efficient and too consistent to not be voip-reliant or preplanned, and this was confirmed when I saw they were all in the same guild.

Cross healing yes, if you have two healers in the same place they can coordinate beautifully without voice chat. I've done it myself on my Op, if I hang out with another Op we can keep each other and our teammates up no problems. Focusing dps on the scale a premade can accomplish, not really possible without sufficient preplanning or using voice chat.

I get focus fired hard, and when I mean hard, getting 600+k damage taken is an average for a 15 minute match. This is both premade and pug. So no, I dont think focus firing is the ONLY thing that Premade do, if PuG isnt doing it, thats the FIRST problem.

EDIT: Not saying I am good or elite but most matches I do know that I get focus hard. Quite annoying and people keep telling me not to get upset over it but thats another story.

I've seen good PuG teams burn down one target after another as they came running it.

On the other hand, what I have seen more of is a team with a few smashers derping around dropping their AoEs on everyone with 2 or 3 single target dpsers doing the actual focusing which is easier to accomplish.

By any chance do you remember what the other team consisted of?