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Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

STAR WARS: The Old Republic > English > PvP
Premades are ruining non-ranked warzones

cymonguk's Avatar


cymonguk
06.20.2013 , 04:36 AM | #3611
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.
If casual groups are the majority, I have no idea, then why would it affect them? Surely you would jsut end up with more premade v premade?

Not saying I personally agree with split queues. Peoples experience suggests that there arent lots of premades, i.e. resulting in premade vs premade, but that there are enough to make it so that it is usually premade vs pug?

What you are saying is that you want to queue with your friends, who are good players, and you are happy to stomp over people who aren't teamed up.

cymonguk's Avatar


cymonguk
06.20.2013 , 04:51 AM | #3612
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good..
True so what is the answer, matchmaking will not happen because it has the same effect as splitting queues. i.e. it will result in poor queue times.

You have to ask why do top pvp guilds (or premades) take part in roflstomping?
They do it because it is profitable! If it was no longer profitable then they wouldnt do it surely???

cymonguk's Avatar


cymonguk
06.20.2013 , 04:56 AM | #3613
Also what does make me laugh is all the pro-premaders in regs on here telling pugs they are poor players and should l2p and they need to get in a group. Yet seem to be oblivious to the fact they could use their own advice,and l2p and group up to play in ranked warzones. Of course in there these leet premaders might get beat and not accrue all their commendations.

Swijr's Avatar


Swijr
06.20.2013 , 05:03 AM | #3614
Quote: Originally Posted by cymonguk View Post
Voice comms is a huge advantage, and if as a group you are not using them and stomping people, think how much worse it is when premades do have that advantage. You cannot compare typed chat to voice comms.
QFT - It can't be said enough. If you don't know your teammates and IF this game had built in VOIP, imagine how much better it would be? I don't know JimmyBlueShoes the gunslinger. I don't know his play style, his skills, his strengths or weaknesses. HOWEVER, if he starts talking and I'm listening or vice versa, we've summed up a going part of it right there. NOT EVEN COUNTING the speed of voice over typing or the fact that we can keep fighting instead of typing.

If your team can PVP with no voice, great. If you've been playing together for a while and just "know" where your team is going to be, kudos. That's approx 0% of the PUGs out there.


Swijr
.: System :. | Jedi Covenant | Republic PVP Guild | Chat Info

AlrikFassbauer's Avatar


AlrikFassbauer
06.20.2013 , 05:12 AM | #3615
Quote: Originally Posted by cymonguk View Post
Voice comms is a huge advantage, and if as a group you are not using them and stomping people, think how much worse it is when premades do have that advantage. You cannot compare typed chat to voice comms.
Voice is much faster, this at least.
"Just say no." If you feel like you are only there for generating Comms for someone else, then just stay away from PvP. Don't let yourself get farmed !

HobbesTay's Avatar


HobbesTay
06.20.2013 , 05:53 AM | #3616
Quote: Originally Posted by sanchito View Post
I absolutely agree that these games shouldn't happen, but consider this:

It's perfectly fine to not want to group up, but if you did group up, the outcome would have been the same. The top pvp guilds play a ton, and have become really really good. Voice comms are an advantage, but they are absolutely not needed in such a game. In fact, if we run a guild premade, most of the times we are not on voice at all, and we still win most games against non-pvp guild premades, just because we usually have some 50k games combined among us 4, and have learned a thing or 2 along the way.

If you split queues then yes it will be better in the solo queue, but it will also be very hard on casual groups, which are the majority in this game. I believe that a big part of those groups would soon never form, and instead tehy would be "forced" to solo queue, but for those people who think being social is a significant part of an mmo this would be a pretty big letdown.

I honestly think matchmaking, however crude it is in the beginning, would be the only thing that maximizes the amount of "good" games vs stupid roflstomps. Yes those would still happen, but the goal should be to have as few of them as possible.
Fair arguments but on some points I have to disagree :

firstly though I am not against match making even though in my original post it sounded like I am, what I should have said is that I personally don't believe that match making "On its own" would solve the issue, my preference would be for a solo queue and better match making for groups.

having played with a group of friends (not a premade as these friends were totally random in class/gear/ and even skill) I know that even in this case there is a considerable advantage to be had over the same number of people who randomly queue and are chucked together.

my preference would be for a number of "toggle buttons" which players can use to choose there level of play, so for example you could have Solo/2 man/4 man/8 man buttons but if you are grouped the only option would be to "tick" boxes that are equal to or greater than the number in your group, so effectively a two man group could only choose to go against other 2 man group or groups of more than 2 man.

The solo player could choose to tick any of the boxes they wanted and so could end up as a filler aginst an 8 man pre-made if they wanted, but the difference is they have this as a choice and could just as easily have chosen to just play in the solo only queue.

I for one have no issue playing against premades, my issue is being stuck playing against premades all night and not having another option apart from logging off and trying again on a different night.

its having the choice that is the important part for me

DariusCalera's Avatar


DariusCalera
06.20.2013 , 07:47 AM | #3617
Quote: Originally Posted by Swijr View Post
QFT - It can't be said enough. If you don't know your teammates and IF this game had built in VOIP, imagine how much better it would be? I don't know JimmyBlueShoes the gunslinger. I don't know his play style, his skills, his strengths or weaknesses. HOWEVER, if he starts talking and I'm listening or vice versa, we've summed up a going part of it right there. NOT EVEN COUNTING the speed of voice over typing or the fact that we can keep fighting instead of typing.
The OPS chat is bad enough sometimes to the point that it actually turns me away from PvPing because of the crap that gets said in it. Give some of these players a VOIP to the PuG team mates would be even worse and if you think new PvPers have a bad experience now, just imagine what it would be like having 3, 4, or 7 other people cussing you out because you didn't know that there was a "throw" icon for Huttball.

Not saying that there were times that it would have come in handy, but you have to realize for it to actually work your team mates have to be willing to listen and if they aren't going to come running when you type out "west 2" it is doubtful that they will come running if you call it out over voice. If they do come, they would have come anyway.

Quote: Originally Posted by Swijr View Post
If your team can PVP with no voice, great. If you've been playing together for a while and just "know" where your team is going to be, kudos. That's approx 0% of the PUGs out there.

Swijr
A team doesn't have to be playing together for awhile to "know" anything. What it takes is situational awareness on the part of those players on the team. I have been part of numerous PuG teams that demonstrated outstanding situational awareness where the players shifted to a new location because they knew it was going to be attacked next.

L-RANDLE's Avatar


L-RANDLE
06.20.2013 , 08:04 AM | #3618
Quote: Originally Posted by TridusSWTOR View Post
By most people, you mean nobody it seems.

I see you still failed to actually re-read. Is it really that hard? I can help if you really need me too.

Oh let me guess, the response will be "Well <insert excuse here> happened so...<Excuse#2>"

If you can't hold a meaningful discussion, just admit it....oh wait you have.
Fine I'll bite, what would you like me to spell out for the short bus ridahz?
PvP Gear Viability? Read this first.
Tired of being broke? Stop being Felica and read this.
I'm not trying to be Rambo..... I'm trying to be Ray Tango

Jadescythe's Avatar


Jadescythe
06.20.2013 , 08:44 AM | #3619
1) VOIP in game is a horrible idea. I wouldn't join even if I could. I don't know you and I certainly don't want to talk to the random ragers in this game. Back when I played Halo, I literally muted every random in my matches that had a mic on.

2) If your argument hinges on a new player getting stomped in their first match and never coming back then you have no argument. If you go into your first 55 warzone expecting to drop a million damage and win 75% of your games thereafter then you're an idiot. I went into my first ever warzone assuming I'd get stomped and continue to get stomped until I got better. I assumed correctly.

3) As a primarily solo queuer (sometimes duo), I can honestly say that none of the solo queue proponents speak for me or all of those who solo queue. You claim that you are protecting those who solo queue, but you're only trying to protect yourself. I can and have beaten good premades before, I don't need you taking the competition out of my warzones. I realize that many want a hybrid queue with a group queue option, but population is too low to support separate queues. I'm not saying population is low now, I'm saying if you split the population in half, it will be too small in each queue.

Anyway, you already know what we have coming in the future. Can't wait to get pulled down by the awesome players in a solo ranked queue.
I have opinions and stuff

mydogclimbstree's Avatar


mydogclimbstree
06.20.2013 , 09:01 AM | #3620
Does everyone realize that queing solo, especially on a smaller server, does not mean that the voice chat and organization will stop?

I end up in warzones with other regular allies, friends and guild mates often, and its easy to pick a vent/TS/mumble to jump into for just that match. With solo ranked ques, the most likely solution is a server wide TS where teams can jump channels for each match.
Kym- Healer of Phil